IMPORTANT: Giangi, please do not think that I'm yelling at you when I sometimes use all capitals in this posting. It is ONLY to emphasize a very important point.
Hello, I've been studying english by myself for some years, but I have lots of difficulties.
I'd like to have some info about this kind of sentence:
- I thought it would save the day
or
- My friend said the I should avoid that area
I notice that after the simple past, would+infinitive verb has to be used.
Instead I'd have used this:
- I thought it would have saved the day
- My friend said me I should have avoid that area
Could you explain it to me?
How do you say this kind of tense?
Where can I find some info about that?
Thanks a lot,
Gianluigi.
Actually, the kind of tense isn't at all important, Gianluigi. The grammar isn't important either. I think that the grammar has likely confused you.
What we choose depends on what the language situation is. First, your examples are reported speech and the "backshift", [so called because we shift back one tense FORM] we make, most often has nothing to do with tense or time.
I can't stress this enough.
BACKSHIFTING IS ONLY TO SHOW THAT THE SPEECH IS REPORTED, THAT IT IS NOT DIRECT OR QUOTED SPEECH. IT IS NOT DONE TO MATCH THE ACTUAL PAST TENSE REPORTING VERB WHICH IS IN THE PAST TIME AND THEREFORE THE PAST TENSE.
ORIGINALS:
- I thought it would save the day
or
- My friend said the I should avoid that area
I notice that after the simple past, would+infinitive verb
has to be used.
Nothing has to be used. Again refer to the part in bold, above.
Original thought: "I think it will save the day" [when reported could become] "I thought it would save the day"
It could also be;
"I thought you know, this will save the day".
Original speech - {friend says} "You should avoid that area". [reported, it could become] My friend said the I should avoid that area
Let's say that you've never been to "that area". This can be seen from the friend's choice of 'that' to describe the area; it's a area distant from where the speech originally occurred. Let's also say that you intend to follow the friend's advice and never go to that area. As you can readily see, there is no past tense because there is no going.
Advice given has no past tense, it's merely advice. The action, of going or not going is the action that could have a past time and therefore a past tense verb to describe it.
'should' is not a past tense, it's only a modal verb that describes someone's opinion and it's not a "finished" opinion, it's one that holds at the time of speech, now and likely in the future, though of course there's nothing that says the friend cannot change his/her opinion.
Instead I'd have used this:
- I thought it would have saved the day
You'd only use this if what you thought 'would save the day' didn't actually turn out to save the day. In other words, your idea/thought was put to the test, something actually happened and it failed to "save the day and now you're remarking on it.
- My friend said me I should have avoid
ed that area.
Again, you'd only use this if you didn't/hadn't actually avoided the area. It can't be used as a simple report of the speech because it seems to contain the meaning that you actually went to that area, despite what the friend said.
Traditional grammar has badly represented just what reported speech is. By telling students that the verbs in the reported portion must/should be past tense, they have misled students into thinking that the verbs were actually describing some finished action. This is, again, most often, FALSE.
The vast majority of reported speech describes actions that have not occurred, so there is NO PAST TENSE in the sense of a finished action. There is a past tense FORM used to show, once again, THAT THE SPEAKER IS MARKING THE SPEECH AS REPORTED SPEECH, NOT DIRECT/QUOTED SPEECH.
either sentence is correct.
