question

[Casiopea]

Second of all, in is synonymous with respect to

I know that, Casiopea.

OK, let me tell you what I'm wondering. For example, "It is important when..." and "It is important with respect to..." are not really the same, right? But according to the grammatical rule, you can say "It is important in..." instead for both sentences.

If "in" could mean either "with respect to" or "when", how do you tell the difference in a sentence where the distinction is not so clear? Or, is it that for you native speakers there is not much semantical difference between "when" and "with respect to/about", and that's why you use the same "in" for both?

Be careful when (at this time)....
Be careful while (during this event)...

Be careful in (this matter)...
Be careful with respect to (this matter)...
Be careful with regards to (this matter)...

Be careful about (this)....

 

[Taka]

You're not answering my question, Casiopea.

My question is, when you see "Be careful in -ing", for example, how do you know whether it's "Be careful when S V" or "Be careful with respect to -ing"?

 

[Casiopea]

You're not answering my question, Casiopea.

My question is, when you see "Be careful in -ing", for example, how do you know whether it's "Be careful when S V" or "Be careful with respect to -ing"?

It's never 'with respect to'. Where did you get that from? :shock: It's always 'in (the matter of).'

 

[Taka]

It's never 'with respect to'. Where did you get that from? :shock: It's always 'in (the matter of).'

Isn't "with respect to" semantically the same as "in the matter of"? :?: :?:
Even if it's not 100% the same, I thougt it was almost the same. And whether it's 100% the same or not, it's different from "when...", right?

But acoodrding to tdol:

You could change 'in' to 'when' there without changing the meaning.

And here comes my question again:

When you see "Be careful in -ing", for example, how do you know whether it's "Be careful when S V" or "Be careful with respect to/in the matter of -ing"?

 

[Taka]

Cas?

 

[Casiopea]

It's never 'with respect to'. Where did you get that from? :shock: It's always 'in (the matter of).'

Isn't "with respect to" semantically the same as "in the matter of"? :?: :?:
Even if it's not 100% the same, I thougt it was almost the same. And whether it's 100% the same or not, it's different from "when...", right?

But acoodrding to tdol:

You could change 'in' to 'when' there without changing the meaning.

And here comes my question again:

When you see "Be careful in -ing", for example, how do you know whether it's "Be careful when S V" or "Be careful with respect to/in the matter of -ing"?

I agree with tdol's words.

Personally, when I come across or hear "Be careful in", I automatically think, "in the matter regarding/with regards to doing something". As for "with respect to doing something", it doesn't sound natural to me. It's the fact that the word 'regard' has more than one meaning,

regard (v.) take into account, heed (French, look at, pay attention to)
regard (n.) point attended to

As nouns, regard and respect share a similar distribution, but their meanings differ,

With regards to..., (In looking at/dealing with)
With respect to...., (In holding X in high esteem)

As verbs, they are also different,

I regard him as a friend. (I see/think of him as a friend)
I respect him as a friend. (I hold him in great esteem as a friend)

In short,

Be careful in crossing the street.
(in the matter regarding)

Be careful with regards to crossing the street.
(in dealing with)

Be careful with respect to crossing the street.
(with esteemed consideration) *It's the esteemed part that's awkward. No one holds crossing the street in great esteem, let alone esteem. It's an action, not someone's point to be attended to. 8) The entire sentence is a point, not 'crossing the street',

With respect to what Taka said about being careful in crossing the street,...

Hope that helps.
It's muggy tonight, ne?

 

[Taka]

Personally, when I come across or hear "Be careful in", I automatically think, "in the matter regarding/with regards to doing something".

So, you never see "Be careful in -ing" as "Be careful when S do"?

I'm not really interested in the definition of "with regard to" or "with respect to". What I'm curious about is the core meaning of "in doing". According to the dictionaries, it means "with regard to doing", and in other cases "when S do". If so, how do you know if it's "with regard to doing" or ""when S do".

It's muggy tonight, ne?

Yes. But the "tsuyu" season is finally over.

 

[Taka]

Any comments, tdol?

 

[Tdol]

Context would determine the meaning- if you're about to drive home and the weather is bad, then we can assume that my meaning is restricted to this situation, rather than a general comment on the need to drive safely. ;-)

 

[Taka]

I know the importance of context. But what do you think is the core meaning of "in -ing", tdol? Why do you think it can mean both "with regard to" and "when S do"?

 

[Tdol]

Why does something have to have a single core meaning? ;-)

 

[Taka]

Why does something have to have a single core meaning? ;-)

Because "in" is "in" ,and "-ing" is "-ing". :lol:

You wouldn't say like when you see "in -ing" structure in a sentence, you come up with hundreds of usage for "in -ing", apply each of them according to the context, and decide which usage it should be by a process of elimination. That's quite unlikely, I think.

My hypothesis is, "in -ing" has a core meaning or "image", and the core image is "colored" by its context. As a rusult, it has a specific meaning.

I just want to know the core image, if there is any.

 

[Tdol]

It can also have a meaning simialr to 'by', so I'm not sure that I can say there is a single core meaning to this. I'll have to dwell on it a bit and look at some concordances. ;-)

 

[allei78]

hi Tdol

so we don't have to use "in" just "be careful crossing the street. what about this one "be careful climbing the tree. is it correct? i'm kind of confused.

You could change 'in' to 'when' there without changing the meaning. 'In regard to' would work better, imo, if it came before the factors. ;-)

Are you saying that if it were " However, transportation may be so overcrowded and expensive that,in deciding where to settle, one has to balance these two factors.", then it should be semantically the same as "....,in regard to deciding where to settle, one has to balance these two factors."?

Why would such difference in your interpretation happen according to the position of the "in"-phrase?

 

[Tdol]

I'd happily say 'be careful climbing the tree'. I don't see that 'in'adds anything there.


In regard to deciding where to settle, there are various factors....
There are various factors in regard to deciding where to settle...
However, transportation may be so overcrowded and expensive that, in regard to deciding where to settle,

To me it sounds and feels better at the beginning. In the middle it seems a bit unnecessarily bulky and can be shorter and more direct. At the beginning, it can be used to help shape the focus, but once the focus has been shaped, then I would go for the shorter form.

By the third example, the sentnce is becoming a bit ponderous. ;-)