really the same?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
A friend of mine says (a): "He forgot to turn off the heater, and went out" is the same as (b):"He went out with the heater on". But to me, they are not the same, and (b) sounds weird; it sounds like the guy went out carrying the heater and the heater was on, which is practically impossible unless he was wacko. :lol:

What do you think, teachers?
 

Casiopea

VIP Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Member Type
Other
Taka said:
A friend of mine says (a): "He forgot to turn off the heater, and went out" is the same as (b):"He went out with the heater on". But to me, they are not the same, and (b) sounds weird; it sounds like the guy went out carrying the heater and the heater was on, which is practically impossible unless he was wacko. :lol:

What do you think, teachers?

He went out with the heater on is ambiguous. It could mean (a), sans the 'forgot' part, and it could mean your interpretation.

Try,

He, leaving the heater on, went out.
Leaving the heater on, he went out.
He went out, leaving the heater on.

None of the above, however, expresses that he 'forgot' to turn the heater off. They all mean he left it on. Whether it was his intention to leave the heater on or not, we don't know.


All the best,
 

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
Casiopea said:
He went out with the heater on is ambiguous. It could mean (a), sans the 'forgot' part, and it could mean your interpretation.
All the best,

What is "sans"??
 

Casiopea

VIP Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Member Type
Other
Taka said:
Casiopea said:
He went out with the heater on is ambiguous. It could mean (a), sans the 'forgot' part, and it could mean your interpretation.
All the best,

What is "sans"??

It's a word borrowed (ahem, dragged screaming) into English from French. It means, without.

EX: I am going to the movie sans friends. (without friends)

All the best,
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
Maybe it was a portable heater.;-)
 

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
tdol said:
Maybe it was a portable heater.

:!:

tdol, when you read the sentence "He went out with the heater on.", which is close to your default reading; "He went out, leaving the heater on" or "He went out, carring the (portable) heater, and the heater was on"?
 

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
Taka said:
tdol said:
Maybe it was a portable heater.

:!:

tdol, when you read the sentence "He went out with the heater on.", which is close to your default reading; "He went out, leaving the heater on" or "He went out, carring the (portable) heater, and the heater was on"?

tdol?
 

Casiopea

VIP Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Member Type
Other
Taka said:
Taka said:
tdol said:
Maybe it was a portable heater.

:!:

tdol, when you read the sentence "He went out with the heater on.", which is close to your default reading; "He went out, leaving the heater on" or "He went out, carring the (portable) heater, and the heater was on"?

tdol?

Maybe he's trying to act out the sentence before he gives his response. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
It's hard work wearing a radiator on a hot day. ;-)
 

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
tdol said:
It's hard work wearing a radiator on a hot day. ;-)

:lol:

So, the default reading for you is ""He went out, carring the (portable) heater, and the heater was on", right?
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
Not really- I'd have to interpret it as leaving the heater on, but it's not a winning sentence. I'd use 'leaving'. ;-)
 

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
tdol said:
Not really- I'd have to interpret it as leaving the heater on, but it's not a winning sentence. I'd use 'leaving'. ;-)

OK. Then, what about this sentence?: "He went out with his radio on".

Which comes first as your interpretation, "He went out, leaving his radio on"? or "He went out, carrying his radio, and the radio was on"?
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
Here, there's a much stronger case for the second. If you changed it walkman, what would happen? ;-)
 

Taka

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Member Type
Other
Native Language
Japanese
Home Country
Japan
Current Location
Japan
tdol said:
Here, there's a much stronger case for the second. If you changed it walkman, what would happen? ;-)

That's my point! I mean, it's not the "with+thing+status" structure but your common sense whether or not the thing is portable that strongly determines the interpretation of the sentence, right?
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Taka said:
tdol said:
Here, there's a much stronger case for the second. If you changed it walkman, what would happen? ;-)

That's my point! I mean, it not the "with+thing+status" structure but your common sense whether or not the thing is portable that strongly determines the interpretation of the sentence, right?

Exactly! :wink:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top