really true?

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Taka

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My English-Japanese dictionary says that the conjunction "as" can be used as "whereas", and gives an example of such usage as follows:

(a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not= (b)Men usually like wrestling as women do not.

Is this really true? To me (b) sounds really weird. Plus, I've checked several Engilish dictionaries at hand including The American Heritage, Oxford Advanced Learner's , but none of them says "as" can be used as "whereas".

What do you think, teachers?
 

A.Russell

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Taka said:
My English-Japanese dictionary says that the conjunction "as" can be used as "whereas", and gives an example of such usage as follows:

(a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not= (b)Men usually like wrestling as women do not.

Is this really true? To me (b) sounds really weird. Plus, I've checked several Engilish dictionaries at hand including The American Heritage, Oxford Advanced Learner's , but none of them says "as" can be used as "whereas".

What do you think, teachers?



In the second one "as" means "because". So you are right.


My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "lap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl :lol:
 

Taka

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A.Russell said:
In the second one "as" means "because". So you are right.


My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "rap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl :lol:

:lol:

As you might know living in Japan, Japanese people are not good at telling the difference between "r" and "l".

By the way, let me ask some questions.

#1: So, you don't think "as" can be used as "whereas"?
#2: You say "as" in "Men usually like wrestling as women do not. " is equivalent to "because". Then the sentence should be equal to "Men usually like wrestling, and the reason is that women do not like it". I don't understand the sentence at all...
 

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#1: So, you don't think "as" can be used as "whereas"?
#2: You say "as" in "Men usually like wrestling as women do not. " is equivalent to "because". Then the sentence should be equal to "Men usually like wrestling, and the reason is that women do not like it". I don't understand the sentence at all...

#1: No, since "as" suggests sameness and "whereas" suggests difference.

Men like wrestling whereas women don't. -Men like wrestling; women don't

Men like wrestling as women do. -Men like wrestling the same as women do

"As" is used differently here to your example above, in which case it means "because."

#2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."

Hope that helps.
 

Taka

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A.Russell said:
#2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."

OK, let me explain what.

The reason I 'm puzzled is that, in my opinion, that women don't like wrestling cannot be the reason why men like it. Under what logic can it be??
 

A.Russell

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Taka said:
A.Russell said:
#2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."

OK, let me explain what.

The reason I 'm puzzled is that, in my opinion, that women don't like wrestling cannot be the reason why men like it. Under what rogic can it be??

You asked a grammar question. The sentence was not a good example. As you said at the beginning, it sounds strange. That's because it is strange. Throw that dictionary away :p . It seems to me that your English is advanced enough to start using a native speaker one anyway. Also get a couple of Micheal Swan books for grammar explanations. I used to have them when I started out teaching, and they were invaluable.
 

Taka

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A.Russell said:
You asked a grammar question. The sentence was not a good example. As you said at the beginning, it sounds strange. That's because it is strange. Throw that dictionary away :p .

So the sentence doesn't make any sense in the first place.

Thank you Mr, Russell.

A.Russell said:
It seems to me that your English is advanced enough to start using a native speaker one anyway. Also get a couple of Micheal Swan books for grammar explanations. I used to have them when I started out teaching, and they were invaluable.

Actually, I have many of them already. :D

I spent four years in the States, and now I teach English here in Japan. As most of the students here use English-Japanese dictionaries and most of the texts are based on the "authentic" English-Japanese ones (you know what? The example I posted here is from "Genius" English-Japanse Dictionary.:lol:) , I have to teach according to such dictionaries, which often makes me so confused.

And that's the reason I'm here. :D

Anyway, thank you for the help, Mr Rusell.

(By the way, just after saying Japanese are not good at telling "r" from"l", I happen to be one of them; I misspelled "rogic" for "logic". I've edited it. Embarrassing... :oops: )
 

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Taka said:
A.Russell said:
#2: That's right, though it might be easier to word it as, "Men like wrestling because women don't." or "Because women don't like wrestling, men do."

OK, let me explain what.

The reason I 'm puzzled is that, in my opinion, that women don't like wrestling cannot be the reason why men like it. Under what logic can it be??

I think one way of explaining it is that that sentence does not make sense unless as means because. But, as you pointed out, it still doesn't make sense.

:)
 

Taka

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A.Russell said:
My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "lap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl :lol:

Oh! You edited it, Mr. Russell. And it was not an "r or l" problem.

Yes, I've found the same kind of sentences as follows:

She lapped her baby in the blanket.
He lapped a blanket around himself.


It was not until you notified it that I knew such sentences sounded strange to you native speakers.

Could you tell me why they are funny?
 

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Taka said:
A.Russell said:
My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "lap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl :lol:

Oh! You edited it, Mr. Russell. And it was not an "r or l" problem.

Yes, I've found the same kind of sentences as follows:

She lapped her baby in the blanket.
He lapped a blanket around himself.


It was not until you notified it that I knew such sentences sounded strange to you native speakers.

Could you tell me why they are funny?

Perhaps it is because the person said lapped when the word should be wrapped. We (native speakers) would not say lapped there.

:)
 

A.Russell

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Taka said:
A.Russell said:
My Canon word tank is full of funny Japlish, if I hunt around in it a bit. It gives an example of "lap" -She lapped the baby in her shawl :lol:

Oh! You edited it, Mr. Russell. And it was not an "r or l" problem.

Yes, I've found the same kind of sentences as follows:

She lapped her baby in the blanket.
He lapped a blanket around himself.


It was not until you notified it that I knew such sentences sounded strange to you native speakers.


Could you tell me why they are funny?

Yes, I made a typo. Sorry, but your reply still has me chuckling. You must have the same dictionary :D

I wonder if anyone will ever update the thing. It's been at least six years since I got my first Wordtank, and the new ones still have the same mistakes.... Or, no, couldn't be! Do other Japanese English dictionaries have that entry?
 

Taka

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No it's not from Wordtank. And actually those two sentences above come from two different dictionaries. I suspect most Japanese might think that usage is quite normal because every dictionary has it as an example.

Now, could you tell me why it's so funny?
 
S

Susie Smith

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Taka said:
My English-Japanese dictionary says that the conjunction "as" can be used as "whereas", and gives an example of such usage as follows:

(a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not= (b)Men usually like wrestling as women do not.

Is this really true? To me (b) sounds really weird. Plus, I've checked several Engilish dictionaries at hand including The American Heritage, Oxford Advanced Learner's , but none of them says "as" can be used as "whereas".

What do you think, teachers?

(a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not. =
Men usually like wrestling, while on the contrary women do not.

(whereas = while on the contrary)
:wink:
 

Taka

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Susie Smith said:
(a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not. =
Men usually like wrestling, while on the contrary women do not.

(whereas = while on the contrary)
:wink:


I know that, Susie. Thanks. :)

(But isn't it a bit redundant? I think "while" or "on the contrary" alone is better.)
 

Casiopea

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Taka said:
My English-Japanese dictionary says that the conjunction "as" can be used as "whereas", and gives an example of such usage as follows:

(a) Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not= (b)Men usually like wrestling as women do not.

Is this really true? To me (b) sounds really weird. Plus, I've checked several Engilish dictionaries at hand including The American Heritage, Oxford Advanced Learner's , but none of them says "as" can be used as "whereas".

What do you think, teachers?

I see the pattern. :D Take a look at this:

'as' and 'though' are synonyms in the following context,

Questionable as it might seem, .... (OK)
Questionable though it might seem,... (OK)

'though' and 'whereas' are also synonyms,

Men usually like wrestling whereas women do not. (OK)
Men usually like wresting though women do not. (OK)

But, 'whereas' and 'as' are not synonyms,

Men usually like wrestling as women do not. (Not OK)

Seems to me the writer of X Japanese-English dictionary made a very cool connection:

whereas ~ though : though ~ as,
therefore as ~ whereas

Problem is, 'as' and 'whereas' are not synonyms. I'd tell your students 'as' is supposed to read as 'though' in,

Men usually like wrestling though women do not. :D

All the best,
 

Francois

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Men usually like wrestling though women do not
If you say that, doesn't it imply that you expected men no to like wrestling, because women don't?
For instance, I would say "He was a republican though all his family had been democrats for generations" => you could have expected him to be a democrat too, given his upbringing.

FRC
 

Taka

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To Casiopea.

I know "as" can be used as "though", but it can be so only when it has the "(adj or adv) as S+V" construction, right? So I think the author of the dictionary is wrong anyway.

(By the way, could you tell me why the usage of "lap" above sounds wierd to you native speakers?)[/i]
 

A.Russell

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Taka said:
To Casiopea.

(By the way, could you tell me why the usage of "lap" above sounds wierd to you native speakers?)[/i]

RonBee already gave you the answer:

the person said lapped when the word should be wrapped

It's like those shops in the Japanese coutryside that are always crosed, cameras that go "crick" and how when Japanese men have an errection, they vote. :D

Sorry, couldn't resist that last joke.





[/i]
 

Taka

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A.Russell said:
Taka said:
To Casiopea.

(By the way, could you tell me why the usage of "lap" above sounds wierd to you native speakers?)[/i]

RonBee already gave you the answer:the person said lapped when the word should be wrapped

Oops! I missed it. Thank you, Ron.

But then, what exactly is the difference between "lap" and "wrap"?

A.Russell said:
It's like those shops in the Japanese coutryside that are always crosed, cameras that go "crick" and how when Japanese men have an errection, they vote. :D

Sorry, couldn't resist that last joke.

Well, that's your jokes; I beleive Japanese dictionaries are not that bad to have such entries. :lol:
 
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