related/relevant V.S. relation/relationship

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Casiopea

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Francois said:
Cambridge dicts are my (online) reference too.

FRC

You should also have a look at OneLook. :D They've an excellent selection of online dictionaries. :D
 

blacknomi

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henry said:
Let me try now!
Sure!
And Hi, Henry! :hi:

henry said:
<1>"The relation between two countries is tight" should here mean that the connection ( business connections etc.,) Iraq and USA is tight.

Let me try now.

Are you saying that in this case, you would use 'relation' to refer to a more abstract concept such as business connections, religion and so forth?



henry said:
<2>"The relationship between Iraq and USA is tight" would mean that the the way in which they feel and behave towards each other is
'tight.'

Here, 'relationship' is associated with more human interaction and less abstract idea such as the way in which government treats one another.
Is that close to you?

henry said:
relation (from Cambr.):
(1) the connection or similarity between two things
(2) a member of your family

relationship( from Cambr.):
(1) the way in which two things are connected
(2)the way in which two or more people feel and behave towards each other
(3)a close romantic friendship between two people, which is often sexual
(4)the family connection between people

There is also relations (plural) which means the way in which two or more people feel and behave towards each other


Question 1
I got similiar results from Oxford Collocations.

I also noticed one distinctive here. Both Cambr. and Collocations differentiate between (two) things and (two) people.

May I jump to conclusion.

relation (uncountable form), usually less concrete idea.
==> relation between poverty and health
==> relation between marriage and violence
==> relation between smoking and lung cancer

relations (plural form), usually more human interaction
==> diplomatic relations
==> improve the business relations between two countries
==> establish good relationships with our partners


relationship, usually between peoples/groups/countries
==> They are in a stable relationship.
==> personal relationshhip.

Am I correct? :roll:


MikeNewYork said:
The words "relation" and "relationship" have some overlap, but they are not always interchangeable.

Question 2
Which sentence is correct?
==>What relation is Mike to you? :?:
==>What's relation between you and Mike? :?: :?:
==>What relationship is Mike to you? :?:
==>What's relationship between you and Mike? :?:


Question 3

The following sentence is from Collocations.
==>There's a close relationship between increased money supply and inflation.
If the above one is correct, why can't I say "The relationship between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close."

==>There's close relation between increased money supply and inflation. ( Then, is this also correct? )

It's very hard for me to tell in which situation can I swap these two words.
 

Francois

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Contrary to what I said, 'relations' does not only refer to relatives.

relation (uncountable form), usually less concrete idea.
==> relation between poverty and health
==> relation between marriage and violence
==> relation between smoking and lung cancer

relations (plural form), usually more human interaction
==> diplomatic relations
==> improve the business relations between two countries
==> establish good relationships with our partners

relationship, usually between peoples/groups/countries
==> They are in a stable relationship.
==> personal relationshhip.
I think that's correct. Cambridge gives "Scientists have established the relationship between lung cancer and smoking" though -- I take it the two are interchangeable in this case.

FRC
 

henry

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And Hi, Henry! :hi:

Ni how ma?( correct?)

Let me try now.

Are you saying that in this case, you would use 'relation' to refer to a more abstract concept such as business connections, religion and so forth?

You are good! :D

Here, 'relationship' is associated with more human interaction and less abstract idea such as the way in which government treats one another.
Is that close to you?

More better! :)


Question 1
I got similiar results from Oxford Collocations.

I also noticed one distinctive here. Both Cambr. and Collocations differentiate between (two) things and (two) people.

May I jump to conclusion.

relation (uncountable form), usually less concrete idea.
==> relation between poverty and health
==> relation between marriage and violence
==> relation between smoking and lung cancer

relations (plural form), usually more human interaction
==> diplomatic relations
==> improve the business relations between two countries
==> establish good relationships with our partners


relationship, usually between peoples/groups/countries
==> They are in a stable relationship.
==> personal relationshhip.

Am I correct? :roll:

Not far off! :wink:

MikeNewYork said:
The words "relation" and "relationship" have some overlap, but they are not always interchangeable.

[
b]Question 2[/b]
Which sentence is correct?
==>What relation is Mike to you? :?:
==>What's relation between you and Mike? :?: :?:
==>What relationship is Mike to you? :?:
==>What's relationship between you and Mike? :?:

Sorry, neither of them seem to be correct.

Try:

(1) What kind of relationship do you have with Mike?
(2) How is the relatioship between you and Mike?
(3) What is the relationship between you and Mike?

[
b]Question 3[/b]

The following sentence is from Collocations.
==>There's a close relationship between increased money supply and inflation.
If the above one is correct, why can't I say "The relationship between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close."

==>There's close relation between increased money supply and inflation. ( Then, is this also correct? )

It's very hard for me to tell in which situation can I swap these two words.

I'll need others' contributions to this one.

Hey! Mike, Ron, Tdol and Cas :hi:
Where are you?
 

Tdol

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Mike is no relation of mine (he's not family) but I do have a relationship(friendship) with him. Does that help?;-)
 

blacknomi

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tdol said:
Mike is no relation of mine (he's not family) but I do have a relationship(friendship) with him. Does that help?;-)


and amazing partnership! :cheers:


henry said:
blacknomi said:
Which sentence is correct?
==>What relation is Mike to you?
==>What's relation between you and Mike?
==>What relationship is Mike to you?
==>What's relationship between you and Mike?


Sorry, neither of them seem to be correct.

Try:

(1) What kind of relationship do you have with Mike?
(2) How is the relatioship between you and Mike?
(3) What is the relationship between you and Mike?


Henry, I agree with your example (1) and (3).
(2) is a bit strange for me. Do (2) and (3) the same?


Examples below are from Collocations, how could it be so wrong?

==>What relation is Mike to you? ( from Oxford Cpollocations)
==>What's relation between you and Mike? (incorrect)
==>What relationship is Mike to you? ( from Oxford Cpollocations)
==>What's the relationship between you and Mike?(I missed 'the')




[Off topic]
Yes. "ni how ma" in Chinese means "How are you". But Chinese is a tone language. We have upper even tone(1),lower even tone(2), rising tone(3) and falling tone(4). It's more correct to say "ni(2) how(3) ma(1)"

Foreigners here learn "ni how ma" as their Lesson One.

9 out of 10 sound like ROBOTs. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Tdol

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Presumably the tenth sounds worse. ;-)
 

henry

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Sorry, neither of them seem to be correct.

Try:

(1) What kind of relationship do you have with Mike?
(2) How is the relatioship between you and Mike?
(3) What is the relationship between you and Mike?


Henry, I agree with your example (1) and (3).
(2) is a bit strange for me. Do (2) and (3) the same?[/quote]


B:How is the relatioship between you and Mike?
H: Hmm, not too bad! :wink:

B:What is the relationship between you and Mike?
H:I would call it a cyberrelationship. :lol:


Examples below are from Collocations, how could it be so wrong?

==>What relation is Mike to you? ( from Oxford Cpollocations)

Sure, it is perfectly correct! :oops:

==>What's relation between you and Mike? (incorrect)
==>What relationship is Mike to you? ( from Oxford Cpollocations)
==>What's the relationship between you and Mike?(I missed 'the')





[Off topic]
Yes. "ni how ma" in Chinese means "How are you". But Chinese is a tone language. We have upper even tone(1),lower even tone(2), rising tone(3) and falling tone(4). It's more correct to say "ni(2) how(3) ma(1)"

Foreigners here learn "ni how ma" as their Lesson One.

9 out of 10 sound like ROBOTs. :lol: :lol: :lol:

You can say that again! :x
 

blacknomi

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tdol said:
Mike is no relation of mine (he's not family)?

Is this answered to "What relation is Mike to you?"

tdol said:
but I do have a relationship(friendship) with him. Does that help?;-)


Is this to "What relationship is Mike to you?"
 

RonBee

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The word robot came to us from Czecholosvakia.

:)
 

blacknomi

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Mike, you're gone away this subject. :roll: :cry:


Question 3
The following sentence is from Collocations.
==>There's a close relationship between increased money supply and inflation.
If the above one is correct, why can't I say "The relationship between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close."

==>There's close relation between increased money supply and inflation. ( Then, is this also correct? )
 

RonBee

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blacknomi said:
Mike, you're gone away this subject. :roll: :cry:

Mike?

:wink:


blacknomi said:
Question 3
The following sentence is from Collocations.
==>There's a close relationship between increased money supply and inflation.
If the above one is correct, why can't I say "The relationship between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close."

I don't see why you can't say that (grammatically speaking).

blacknomi said:
==>There's close relation between increased money supply and inflation. ( Then, is this also correct? )

I would not say that, and I would advise against it. (Some might disagree.) In my opinion, the word "relationship" is just right there, and "relation" is not an adequate substitute.

:)
 

MikeNewYork

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blacknomi said:
Mike, you're gone away this subject. :roll: :cry:


Question 3
The following sentence is from Collocations.
==>There's a close relationship between increased money supply and inflation.
If the above one is correct, why can't I say "The relationship between the war at Iraq and the price of pretrolium is obviously close."

==>There's close relation between increased money supply and inflation. ( Then, is this also correct? )

I'm back! I have read the rest of the discussion. I must say I'm not terribly happy with the "rules" that have been proposed to date. I think we need to look at these two words as two partially overlapping circles. There are uses of relation that are distinct from relationship and vice versa. But there is also a lot of overlap.

There is a definitely a relationship between cancer and smoking. There is also a relation between them. When the words are used for association/connection, it is difficult to find much difference.
 
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