Simple Past Or Past Perfect

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vscid

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1. When I had run hard in 1969, I won the race.
2.When I ran hard in 1969, I won the race.

Is 1 correct or 2?
 

stuartnz

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I'm not a professional teacher of English, but No. 2 is definitely correct.
 

vscid

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But shouldn't it be 1, because it should be past perfect because 1 action occurred before other.
 

2006

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But shouldn't it be 1, because it should be past perfect because 1 action occurred before other.
1...1 action did not occur before another action. Running hard and winning the race occurred at the same time.
2...I have a suggestion for you. When you have a question like this, try using simple past tense first. Then if you feel it does not correctly express your meaning, or someone tells you that, you can use the more complicated perfect tense.
3...Even when one action does occur before another, simple past tense often is all you need.

'I moved to London before I found a job there.' There is no need to say 'I had moved to London before I found a job there.'

Once you understand simple past tense very well, and know its limitations, you will be in a good position to understand when you need to use perfect tense.
We very often see students getting very confused from trying to follow the 'one action before another action rule'.
 

vscid

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1...1 action did not occur before another action. Running hard and winning the race occurred at the same time.
2...I have a suggestion for you. When you have a question like this, try using simple past tense first. Then if you feel it does not correctly express your meaning, or someone tells you that, you can use the more complicated perfect tense.
3...Even when one action does occur before another, simple past tense often is all you need.

'I moved to London before I found a job there.' There is no need to say 'I had moved to London before I found a job there.'

Once you understand simple past tense very well, and know its limitations, you will be in a good position to understand when you need to use perfect tense.
We very often see students getting very confused from trying to follow the 'one action before another action rule'.

I think I am getting a faint idea of what you mean.
So for e.g:

When I finished my dinner, I cleaned the table.

Here, there is no need to use past perfect 'had finished' right?
So, using past perfect is considered incorrect or just redundant?
 

riverkid

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I think I am getting a faint idea of what you mean.
So for e.g:

When I finished my dinner, I cleaned the table.

Here, there is no need to use past perfect 'had finished' right?
So, using past perfect is considered incorrect or just redundant?

Since the past perfect is a distinct possibility in this case, it stands to reason that there is a need, some need.
 

2006

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I think I am getting a faint idea of what you mean.
So for e.g:

When I finished my dinner, I cleaned the table.

Here, there is no need to use past perfect 'had finished' right? Yes, I agree.
So, using past perfect is considered incorrect or just redundant? It's unnecessary, and using unnecessary words can be considered incorrect.
Also, use of unnecessary words, especially by English learners, sometimes leads to unintended meanings.
2006
 

riverkid

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Originally Posted by vscid
I think I am getting a faint idea of what you mean.
So for e.g:

When I finished my dinner, I cleaned the table.

Here, there is no need to use past perfect 'had finished' right?


2006: Yes, I agree.

What would be a reason, the reason where it would be needed?

Vscid: So, using past perfect is considered incorrect or just redundant?

2006: It's unnecessary, and using unnecessary words can be considered incorrect.
Also, use of unnecessary words, especially by English learners, sometimes leads to unintended meanings.


What about those cases where the context makes it necessary or desirable, 2006?

Prosecutor: So after you ate, you cleaned the table. Is that right?

Witness: Yes, when I had finished my dinner, I cleaned the table.
 
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