Sir Ron, how are you.

[Tdol]

Just so it knows it's looking at a picture.;-)

 

[Cooler]

As for a terrorism, China media won't report positive news of yours most of time. Frankly, there are a good many people who support Ben Lartin??

Also, there are a lot of guys feeling for Saddam Hussein in China due to the CCP's deceiving propagation. Just like one well-known freelance in Beijing, YuJie says, the largest group of people supporting Saddam Hussein is in China. In fact, I just talked with one of these guys this morning. He argued, 'Sovereignty, which cannot be infringed(is not infringable?), is above all'. Obviously, this guy was acting unconsciously as a CCP spokesman.

And, eric2004, wish you good luck in everything, as one who share the same opinion as you.

 

[RonBee]

As for a terrorism, China media won't report positive news of yours most of time. Frankly, there are a good many people who support Ben Lartin??

Also, there are a lot of guys feeling for Saddam Hussein in China due to the CCP's deceiving propagation. Just like one well-known freelance in Beijing, YuJie says, the largest group of people supporting Saddam Hussein is in China. In fact, I just talked with one of these guys this morning. He argued, 'Sovereignty, which cannot be infringed(is not infringable?), is above all'. Obviously, this guy was acting unconsciously as a CCP spokesman.

And, eric2004, wish you good luck in everything, as one who share the same opinion as you.

I think you mean propaganda rather than propagation. Also, say infringed upon.

Do the Chinese know that 70% of the Iraqis not only are glad the Americans are there but don't want them to leave any time soon? Do they know that since the USA liberated Iraq that there are no more rape rooms and no more torture chambers and that the mass graves are no longer being filled? Do they know that Iraqis can now buy books that previously were not allowed to be sold. Do they know that Iraqis can now freely voice their political opinions? Don't the Iraqis deserve a chance for freedom?

When is the last time you heard of a country invading another country and defeating its army only to turn the country over to the people? Sure things are tough right now, but do you think liberating Europe was a piece of cake (easy)? How long do you think it took before Germany was pacified after World War 2?

A year after the invasion of Iraq the Iraqis are better off than they were under Saddam both economically and otherwise. A democratic, prosperous, peaceful, free Iraq will be a model for the world. The Jihadis can't stand the idea of Iraq becoming a country free to chart its own destiny. That is why they are doing everything to prevent it. They will fail.

Japan is supporting the establishment of democracy in Iraq. They are sending troops to help keep the peace. Are the Japanese wrong?

(Japanese troops as peacekeepers--isn't that a wonderful idea?)

 

[Cooler]

I understand your point, RonBee. In fact, I'd say that is what I was telling them. However, I haven't been able to convince them that I am telling the truth. They just stick to the concept of 'sovereignty above human rights', which the CCP has been advocating all the time for their own political purpose.

The U.S. will present a resolution on China's human rights practices on the U.N. Commission on Human Rights this year. No matter how much I want it to be approved, I don't think it is likely to happen. But still, I feel comforted by the knowledgement that there are countries standing out censuring the devil.

None of us want UE on the block list. If UE was on the list, it would be a great loss to English learners in China. As an ESL learner myself, I really do not want to see that. However, I just can't help expressing myself in the only way available for me.

 

[eric2004]

Wow, for the first time, I could see a chinese guy from Mainland supporting my opinion. So touched.
Very very glad to see you. Surely you're telling those western people what we're experiencing now.


Sir Ron, sounds like you're the same as me, unemployed. Haha. Hmm, The only reason why I yearn for going overseas is calling for my life, my freedom, my future and my destiny. So I gotta change my nationality first, otherwise I must be taken as a traitor too. And I really failed to adapt Chinese society, where is rather abnormal and full of false. i.e. always bragging we're a great nation.
But we can't even get a modern democratic lifestyle. And there is no one who can disagree with the governmental policies, who can satirize officers of CCP, who can have the right to vent their political opinions except the patriotism.

Sigh, what a sarcastic state, we chinese can only express our ideas in a foreign forum.

What I meant about Visa is a fact that you can get visa with a pretty easy way, but we're not. We must go through a long process of checkup before getting it. And some of us may fail in it and then fail to accomplish their dream of going overseas.


Northern Korea? God, if i were in this kind of country, I would rather die immediately. Can they go overseas on their own? I'm not sure about that. But I guess, from our experience in last century, they must be restricted to do so. Even if I'm living in China, I've stand it enough and wanted to change my life.

Tell you a secret,Sir, I learned that even some of officers have to log to forbidden websites to seek for some secretive news. like SARS. Ironical, right?

Hmm, like Cooler and I said before, CCP have never stopped their brainwashed propaganda since our childhood. And they won't advocate America positive effects on world, especially America-style democracy and freedom because they can't take control of Chinese if so. We should remeber that, CCP is an evil authoritarian party, so they're certainly the enemy of America, forever.

For example, you think you liberated Iraqis, but CCP and most of Chinese said you invaded this sovereign country only for Oil. And CCP only showed parade of Iraqis,telling us American mistreated them. Most importanly, CCP always imply that America is the origin of terrorism. Looks like there are no terrorists in the world if America didn't interfer in other countries' internal affairs.

Basically, Chinese grow up in this kind of education. What they think is that China is always right and others are always wrong.

Btw, don't mention Japanese with most of Chinese, Sir, you can never understand how much Chinese hate Japanese. So using my theory, everything Japanese do is wrong for Chinese.

Hmm, to sum up, I think Chinese are speaking like Nazi, but behaving more like cowards. (we called that A'Q., a typical Chinese) And this is why Chinese are extremely nationalists and patriosts but they don't dare to overthrow this authoritarian regime and even follow it.

Hmm, I heard an American-Chinese called Hongkong people as Hongkongese. Is it not right?

And to Cooler, another of my chinese buddy. Thanks a lot. Wish you're well too. Hmm, I recommend you shouldn't express your minds in Chinese forums. It's dangerous. I saw some news from forbidden sites that CCP would strengthen the control of speech and words on Internet. So be careful.

 

[RonBee]

I understand your point, RonBee. In fact, I'd say that is what I was telling them. However, I haven't been able to convince them that I am telling the truth. They just stick to the concept of 'sovereignty above human rights', which the CCP has been advocating all the time for their own political purpose.

The U.S. will present a resolution on China's human rights practices on the U.N. Commission on Human Rights this year. No matter how much I want it to be approved, I don't think it is likely to happen. But still, I feel comforted by the knowledgement that there are countries standing out censuring the devil.

None of us want UE on the block list. If UE was on the list, it would be a great loss to English learners in China. As an ESL learner myself, I really do not want to see that. However, I just can't help expressing myself in the only way available for me.

I wouldn't have much hope in the U.N. Commission on Human Rights. some of the most egregious violators of human rights sit on the commission. I think Libya even chaired the commission for a while. I believe that Syria is on the commission. (I could be wrong about that.) There is hope though. Iranians want to be free. They want to be rid of their oppressive government. Even the Ayatollah's Khomeni's own grandson has repudiated the revolution that put the theocratic, repressive regime in power. I believe that one day they will succeed in creating a free society in Iran. They will only have to look next door for inspiration.

Dictatorships are breeding grounds for hatred and violence. Democracies, on the other hand, incubate freedom.

Keep the faith.



(I like your phrase censuring the devil.)

 

[RonBee]

Sir Ron, sounds like you're the same as me, unemployed. Haha. Hmm, The only reason why I yearn for going overseas is calling for my life, my freedom, my future and my destiny. So I gotta change my nationality first, otherwise I must be taken as a traitor too. And I really failed to adapt Chinese society, where is rather abnormal and full of false. i.e. always bragging we're a great nation.

You yearn to go overseas so you can control your destiny? So you can be free?

I don't think you are a traitor because you want to make something of yourself. Also, you are Chinese. You can't change that. It does seem that wherever Chinese people go they prosper. They have a reputation for industriousness.

But we can't even get a modern democratic lifestyle. And there is no one who can disagree with the governmental policies, who can satirize officers of CCP, who can have the right to vent their political opinions except the patriotism.

It is unfortunate that there is no freedom of speech in China. That is where all the other freedoms come from. Do you know what they used to do in Iraq to people who spoke out against the regime? They would cut their tongues out. Today the Iraqi people can speak their minds openly.

Sigh, what a sarcastic state, we chinese can only express our ideas in a foreign forum.

Say what a sad state of affairs or what an unfortunate state of affairs. Only people (or remarks or comments) can be sarcastic.

What I meant about Visa is a fact that you can get visa with a pretty easy way, but we're not. We must go through a long process of checkup before getting it. And some of us may fail in it and then fail to accomplish their dream of going overseas.

Americans and other Westerners can get visas fairly easily compared to Chinese?

Northern Korea? God, if i were in this kind of country, I would rather die immediately. Can they go overseas on their own? I'm not sure about that. But I guess, from our experience in last century, they must be restricted to do so. Even if I'm living in China, I've stand it enough and wanted to change my life.

From what I understand of North Korea it is pretty bad there. People are literally starving. About the only industry is military technology. And it is all because of the repressive regime.

Tell you a secret,Sir, I learned that even some of officers have to log to forbidden websites to seek for some secretive news. like SARS. Ironical, right?

I guess they want to know what is really going on in the world.

Hmm, like Cooler and I said before, CCP have never stopped their brainwashed propaganda since our childhood. And they won't advocate America positive effects on world, especially America-style democracy and freedom because they can't take control of Chinese if so. We should remeber that, CCP is an evil authoritarian party, so they're certainly the enemy of America, forever.

I am afraid that is all too true. There are those in China--certainly in the government--who see America as the enemy. (In a way, they are right.) Let me tell you about something I read recently. There are some in the Chinese government who think they can win a nuclear war with the United States. They figure there are so many Chinese that they can afford to lose 200 million of them, but the United States cannot afford to lose 200 milliion people. Pretty scary, huh?

For example, you think you liberated Iraqis, but CCP and most of Chinese said you invaded this sovereign country only for Oil. And CCP only showed parade of Iraqis,telling us American mistreated them. Most importanly, CCP always imply that America is the origin of terrorism. Looks like there are no terrorists in the world if America didn't interfer in other countries' internal affairs.

People will believe whatever they want to believe. If we really wanted oil so badly why didn't we just take over Kuwait back in 1991? We can buy all the oil we want. Why do we need to invade somebody's country? Indeed, there are places we aren't even drilling for oil because of (unreasonable) environmental objections. We gave Kim Jung Il a bunch of oil (along with food and other things) to bribe him not to develop nuclear weapons. (Then, of course, he did anyway.) War is expensive. It is much cheaper to buy all the oil we want than to go to war for it. It doesn't make sense to go to war for oil. If we went in there for the oil why are we spending all that money to rebuild Iraq? Would you spend billions of dollars to rebuild a country if all you want is the oil?

The CCP has to keep the propaganda machine going full time so they can stay in power. They don't want the people to know the truth, do they?

Basically, Chinese grow up in this kind of education. What they think is that China is always right and others are always wrong.

In this country we assume that nobody is always right. We assume that the people in power sometimes make mistakes. In fact, we criticize the government constantly. It's a game we call politics. :wink:

Btw, don't mention Japanese with most of Chinese, Sir, you can never understand how much Chinese hate Japanese. So using my theory, everything Japanese do is wrong for Chinese.

You are probably right that I can never understand how much Chinese hate Japanese. The Japanese did terrible things in China. They committed great atrocities. Unforgivable things. Still, Japan is not the country it once was. It has given up imperilism. It is now a stable, democratic country. Japan has the prosperity that China could have if it would let its people have the freedom to grow.

It is not good to hold on to hatreds. You cannot build a better future if you are stuck in the past.

Hmm, to sum up, I think Chinese are speaking like Nazi, but behaving more like cowards. (we called that A'Q., a typical Chinese) And this is why Chinese are extremely nationalists and patriosts but they don't dare to overthrow this authoritarian regime and even follow it.

Hm.

Hmm, I heard an American-Chinese called Hongkong people as Hongkongese. Is it not right?

I am not sure what people from Hong Kong prefer to be called. Perhaps HongKongChinese will volunteer an opinion.

And to Cooler, another of my chinese buddy. Thanks a lot. Wish you're well too. Hmm, I recommend you shouldn't express your minds in Chinese forums. It's dangerous. I saw some news from forbidden sites that CCP would strengthen the control of speech and words on Internet. So be careful.

I am glad you are here and that you feel free to express yourself on this forum.

 

[eric2004]

:wink: Sir Ron, happy talking with you about those political affairs.

To be frank, I really think politics can build up or destroy people's life and fate, so I've been addicted in reading and analyzing news and reports. But unfortunately, politics has been seemed as nuts for the public of Chinese since the slaughter of 1989, on June 4, on square of Tian an men (not sure what you will call that), unless you're wishing to be a member of CCP. ( In fact, to be a communist is harder because candidates have to go through a higher brainwashed process----reading theory of Marx, Lenin, Mao zedong and now, Jiang Zemin) Pity.

1, Yep, I'll be totally free if I'm no longer a person with China P.R nationality. Sigh, I don't mind being a Chinese but I really hate to be ruled by CCP. Also, we have two words in Chinese for telling the difference between people without China visa and people of China PR. ( Taiwanese and Hongkongese is an exception. It's vague to differ them. Up to them.)

2, I know the mistreat in Iraq. As a matter of fact, China at the era of Cultural Revolution, when Chairman Mao was Chinese's leader, was pretty scarier then Iraq, because not only we might be mistreated physically, but also we should suffer the hurt from spirit-----betray from our most intimated people, such as parents, sons and daughters. And we didn't dare to believe anyone else but ourselves. There was no friendship and love. ( except some of real great people, but they were few.) People made use of others, bully others, and even kill others. And some of leaders would make an excuse or threaten women, girls to have sex with them, or women and girls might suffer. That was the most miserable environment and era in China's history.
China in Cultural Revolution was more like a hell in the world. the same as present North Korea.

3, Yes, you guys can get visas rather easier than us. hmm. It's a complete difference. Sigh, it sucks but I can understand why your embassy must bring on a strict examination for Chinese, because they think we may be illegal migrants when our visas are expired.

4, You know the same as I know towards what North Korea is. But like present Chinese, people in North Korea think pretty much that they're living in a paradise. You know what? In the past we Chinese thought you american lived in a hell and we had a duty to liberate you before 1980's. Haha, funny. right?

5, Yes again, some of extreme nationalists of Chinese think what you read. You can't afford people's lives but China government won't mind it. Also, we have been educated that sacrifice for Nation is our duties and if we don't die for country, it would be regarded as a humiliation. Because of this, American coudn't win in Korea War. Hehe, even if you lost 50,000 lives and we 500,000, it's only a piece of cake for Chinese lives. Sigh, we're cheap both for labors and for soilders. I hate this.

6, I totally suppot Bush liberated Iraq, but America may pay a price for it. Middle-East is a mess. I can't know what Muslem think. In fact, I don't like this religion, especially when I knew their behaviors for women.

7, I feel there is no way but you help South Korea overthrow the North Korea's power. This country is like a prick and he won't obey any promises he made. Btw, American should actually protect Taiwan if China attack her, for both of your interests, even for the whole world.

8. The relation between China and Japan is very contradictive and complicated. Personally I hope we'll be friends but it's only a daydream.

Good morning. Sir, is it now your morning in America? You have a lot of time zones. would it not lead to confusion? China have an unique Beijing Time. I think it's pretty convienient.

Faint, I'm such an idiot. Now it's your night, right? Hm, which time zon is our forum?

Whatever, have a good day. Bye

 

[RonBee]

:wink: Sir Ron, happy talking with you about those political affairs.

To be frank, I really think politics can build up or destroy people's life and fate, so I've been addicted in reading and analyzing news and reports. But unfortunately, politics has been seemed as nuts for the public of Chinese since the slaughter of 1989, on June 4, on square of Tian an men (not sure what you will call that), unless you're wishing to be a member of CCP. ( In fact, to be a communist is harder because candidates have to go through a higher brainwashed process----reading theory of Marx, Lenin, Mao zedong and now, Jiang Zemin) Pity.

I recall the events of the demonstrations on Tiananmen Square. I remember that they were peaceful. I remember the model of the Statue of Liberty some of them had made. I remember how I felt watching it on TV. I thought it was terrific what they did. I thought it was a wonderful thing that they used the Statue of Liberty as a symbol for their aspirations. Then the government brought in the soldiers. I thought--hoped--that they wouldn't fire on Chinese people. I was sadly disappointed. The government brutally cracked down on the demonstrators. It was a slaughter--a slaughter of innocents. I cried.

America is not the enemy of the Chinese people. If anything, the opposite is true.

 

[RonBee]

To be frank, I really think politics can build up or destroy people's life and fate, so I've been addicted in reading and analyzing news and reports. But unfortunately, politics has been seemed as nuts for the public of Chinese since the slaughter of 1989, on June 4, on square of Tian an men (not sure what you will call that), unless you're wishing to be a member of CCP. ( In fact, to be a communist is harder because candidates have to go through a higher brainwashed process----reading theory of Marx, Lenin, Mao zedong and now, Jiang Zemin) Pity.

It is a shame that you have to study Marxist theory, or I guess you only have to do that if you want to be a member of the CCP. In any case, it does seem like a waste of time. After all, Communism has been discredited even in its birthplace. Not in China or in Cuba and certainly not in North Korea is there anything like a worker's paradise or any kind of paradise. Instead, the opposite is true. Workers fare much better in capitalistic countries like the USA. Ask yourself where the standard of living is higher. Indeed, countries that have rejected Communist-style socialism have fared much better.

Workers fare better when they are "exploited" by a capitalistic system than when they are exploited by the government. People will work harder for themselves than they will for the government. In the U.S.S.R. (now dead and gone) they used to have a saying, "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us."

(Say: destroy people's lives)

1, Yep, I'll be totally free if I'm no longer a person with China P.R nationality. Sigh, I don't mind being a Chinese but I really hate to be ruled by CCP. Also, we have two words in Chinese for telling the difference between people without China visa and people of China PR. ( Taiwanese and Hongkongese is an exception. It's vague to differ them. Up to them.)

What are those two words? I'm not sure what you mean by "It's vague to differ them". Please explain.

2, I know the mistreat in Iraq. As a matter of fact, China at the era of Cultural Revolution, when Chairman Mao was Chinese's leader, was pretty scarier then Iraq, because not only we might be mistreated physically, but also we should suffer the hurt from spirit-----betray from our most intimated people, such as parents, sons and daughters. And we didn't dare to believe anyone else but ourselves. There was no friendship and love. ( except some of real great people, but they were few.) People made use of others, bully others, and even kill others. And some of leaders would make an excuse or threaten women, girls to have sex with them, or women and girls might suffer. That was the most miserable environment and era in China's history.
China in Cultural Revolution was more like a hell in the world. the same as present North Korea.

More like hell on earth than a worker's paradise, right?

3, Yes, you guys can get visas rather easier than us. hmm. It's a complete difference. Sigh, it sucks but I can understand why your embassy must bring on a strict examination for Chinese, because they think we may be illegal migrants when our visas are expired.

I don't know why our government would discriminate against Chinese. If that's what they are doing it is wrong. Indeed, our problem right now is with Muslim extremists, and I am quite sure you are not one of them. (Muhammed Atta and several of his compatriots were here on student visas.)

4, You know the same as I know towards what North Korea is. But like present Chinese, people in North Korea think pretty much that they're living in a paradise. You know what? In the past we Chinese thought you american lived in a hell and we had a duty to liberate you before 1980's. Haha, funny. right?

I would say not so much funny as weird. I suppose, if anything, we have always thought you were the ones who needed to be liberated.

To the extent that we are a threat to the Chinese people it's our ideas that are a threat to them, not our military. And those ideas are not a threat to the Chinese people so much as they are a threat to the authoritarian government. Those demonstrators at Tiananmen Square clearly did not feel threatened by us but instead encouraged by us.

5, Yes again, some of extreme nationalists of Chinese think what you read. You can't afford people's lives but China government won't mind it. Also, we have been educated that sacrifice for Nation is our duties and if we don't die for country, it would be regarded as a humiliation. Because of this, American coudn't win in Korea War. Hehe, even if you lost 50,000 lives and we 500,000, it's only a piece of cake for Chinese lives. Sigh, we're cheap both for labors and for soilders. I hate this.

It is a shame that some people regard people's lives so cheaply. It is too bad for the North Korean people that they "won" that war. The people of North Korea would be a lot better off today if North Korea had "lost" that war. Two former enemies, Japan and Germany, are now two of the most prosperous, peaceful countries in the world. You can do worse than lose a war to the United States. (I am not recommending that kind of thing to anybody, of course.)

6, I totally suppot Bush liberated Iraq, but America may pay a price for it. Middle-East is a mess. I can't know what Muslem think. In fact, I don't like this religion, especially when I knew their behaviors for women.

There are too many people who are all too eager to blame others for their problems, and the Jews are one of there most convenient scapegoats. Europe today is rife with anti-Semitism. Many pick tiny Israel as the biggest threat to world peace. Not Al Qaeda! Not Muslim extremists! Israel! Do you know who is second on the list? The United States!

7, I feel there is no way but you help South Korea overthrow the North Korea's power. This country is like a prick and he won't obey any promises he made. Btw, American should actually protect Taiwan if China attack her, for both of your interests, even for the whole world.

I believe it is our obligation as a world power to protect countries that are small and weak and need help defending themselves. It is what we are. It is what we have to be. As a free country, we need to protect freedom.

8. The relation between China and Japan is very contradictive and complicated. Personally I hope we'll be friends but it's only a daydream.

Their history makes relations between the two countries difficult. But things will change. They always do.

Good morning. Sir, is it now your morning in America? You have a lot of time zones. would it not lead to confusion? China have an unique Beijing Time. I think it's pretty convienient.

They have the same time zone across the entire country?

Faint, I'm such an idiot. Now it's your night, right? Hm, which time zon is our forum?

The forum goes by Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).

Whatever, have a good day. Bye

Bye!



:hi:

[Edited because I left a word out.]

 

[RonBee]

6, I totally suppot Bush liberated Iraq, but America may pay a price for it. Middle-East is a mess. I can't know what Muslem think. In fact, I don't like this religion, especially when I knew their behaviors for women.

I don't think Islam dictates that women be treated like second-class citizens. I think more a cultural thing having to do with the region. One thing that I am sure of is that if you repress half your population (the females) you can't expect your society to prosper as well as it would have otherwise. A society that wastes the talents of half its population deprives itself of great riches.

In ten years Iraq will be a model for the world--a peaceful, democratic society right in the middle of the Middle East. Iranians also want to be free. Expect a revolution there--either a peaceful or a violent one.

 

[claude]

Well, I think it is a long way for China to win a positive international reputation especially under the leading of CPP...

Provide what the OP has said was not rumor, then, I want to say:
Besides complaint or going abroad or changing the nationality, Is therr anything else that you think you should do to change the displeasing status? you know, Once all Chinese are as wakeful as you guys and adopting your nationality-chaning ways, I am a little worried whether USA or europe has the capcibility to accommodate 1300million(perhaps more) people?

well, perhaps USA will liberate China just as they liberate Iraq, well well, Eric, Once you get your visa and eventually become a american successfully, would you be kind enough to propose this suggestion to your America president, so those have not gone abroad yet can also have their freedom and democracy like Iraqs, we are look forwarding to the comming of this day. there must be several of your relatives or your friends who can not go to USA yet, Please do them a favor, Eric, If you or your future government donot save them from suffering, they will keep living in miserable China. Thanks in advance

er... again, provided the information you conveyed was true, I hope you donnot regard John Kennedy as a communist, because he had once said below words, sounds like a communist, huh? perhaps that is why he was assassinated for? muhahahahaha :lol: :lol:

"My fellow Americans , ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country . My fellow citizens of the world ; ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man ."(John Kennedy , American President )

If a Chinese can not be a successful/proud Chinese, then he can not be a successful/proud American either. Those escaping from their reponsiblities are doomed to be losers forever nomatter wherever they are.

No offense to anyone, I Just believe in a democratic forum, I have the right to convey/express/ an opposite opinion

It would be my honor if any teachers here could correct my English mistakes.

 

[RonBee]

Provide what the OP has said was not rumor, then, I want to say:
Besides complaint or going abroad or changing the nationality, Is therr anything else that you think you should do to change the displeasing status? you know, Once all Chinese are as wakeful as you guys and adopting your nationality-chaning ways, I am a little worried whether USA or europe has the capcibility to accommodate 1300million(perhaps more) people?

I am quite sure we cannot accommodate 1300 million Chinese. I am sure Europe can't either. Besides, I thought there were "only" a billion Chinese?

:wink:

well, perhaps USA will liberate China just as they liberate Iraq, well well, Eric, Once you get your visa and eventually become a american successfully, would you be kind enough to propose this suggestion to your America president, so those have not gone abroad yet can also have their freedom and democracy like Iraqs, we are look forwarding to the comming of this day. there must be several of your relatives or your friends who can not go to USA yet, Please do them a favor, Eric, If you or your future government donot save them from suffering, they will keep living in miserable China. Thanks in advance

Say: "just as they liberated Iraq" I detect just the slightest hint of sarcasm there. :wink:

er... again, provided the information you conveyed was true, I hope you donnot regard John Kennedy as a communist, because he had once said below words, sounds like a communist, huh? perhaps that is why he was assassinated for? muhahahahaha :lol: :lol:

Say that is why he was assassinated or that is what he was assassinated for.

"My fellow Americans , ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country . My fellow citizens of the world ; ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man ."(John Kennedy , American President )

I think it is fairly clear that Kennedy favored the spread of democracy, not the spread of Communism.

If a Chinese can not be a successful/proud Chinese, then he can not be a successful/proud American either. Those escaping from their reponsiblities are doomed to be losers forever nomatter wherever they are.

Many have sought to flee oppression to seek better lives for themselves. That is what created this country (USA).

No offense to anyone, I Just believe in a democratic forum, I have the right to convey/express/ an opposite opinion

Yes, you do.

It would be my honor if any teachers here could correct my English mistakes.

I'll do my best.

 

[eric2004]

Enjoy getting your replys here. April fool's day is over, so what's funny in western world? Chinese didn't pay attention to this western festival. Me either.

Sir Ron,

1, Yep, it's a slaughter in Tiananmen at that time, but until now China leaders don't want to admit it, even if most of overseas Chinese demand it.

2, Hmm, i.e. if one chinese want to apply to the entrance of Postgraduate in China, at first he or she must love CCP ( in fact that only stands for that you should not criticize them), but second, he or she have to take part in politics exam---compulsory one of three exams. ( sigh, China education is a disaster too. Actually most of college students now have to promote to get Master degrees.)

3, sigh, you didn't even know China characters, how can I explain it for you?xixi. Maybe like a difference between Jew and Israelite?
Taiwanese and Hongkongese? Sigh, we have different education, and now some of Taiwanese really hate Chinese---us, because of mainland China's military threat and insult towards them. So I guess and I do see that they don't like to be called Chinese anymore.

4, :wink: When you become an embassador of U.S.A, xixi, tell me that, I may be encouraged to interview with you and then get a green card. Hmm, your embassy reject us because of our poverty and politics, I think. As well as our intention of immigrant to USA. xixi. it's me. So I'm unqualified to study in America now unless I tell a lie.

5, I doubt Chinese would think you friendly. hehe.

6, Until now, most of us take Korea War as our great, glory triumph because we defeated the evilest imperialism America. :wink: Both you and me cann't convince them what they're thinking is wrong.

7, Yep, some of Chinese disgust Israel and you. :wink: But they don't like europe, Japan and Korea too. Big extent.

8, I guess Chinese and Janpanese would be forever hostile worse and worse

9, Yes, we have only one time zone.xixi. Conveninet. At least we don't need to adjust our watches too many times. :wink:

Last, good morning, noon, evening, and night whatsoever.



Ok, Claude, I can reply you and I do agree that you can say anything you want here, except personality insult. I've been fearing this kind of discussion in China.

I detect a hint of sarcasm too, but you've been enough kind to me, so I'm glad to discuss with you.

1, Never, never would what you were supposed to be happening in China. I've mentioned Chinese hate foreign countries and most of them have been educated loving CCP and CCP is their mother, their leader, and their direction. ( You have to admit being a communist can enjoy a large amount of privileges, right? Corruption, for example. So at least 60 million communists of China don't want to change the present situation.)

2, No, I don't have the duty to help Chinese who've been insulting me. So I don't care their fate. As once I told one of those kind of people: I would not share their advantages in the future if China become a prosperous nation. On the other hand, I would not cry for their misery too. One should strive for his or her own life. If Chinese choose to be ruled under CCP and maintain CCP's power for any kind of purposes, then they're certainly responsible for any kind of result too. As for the same people as me who want to escape, just learn what I did. I borrowed money and I will experience a hardship to study in Australia, being a poor compared with them, and be exclued by Chinese patriots because of I'm taken as a traitor even if I'd never do anything harm to this country.
So why people like me can't strive for themselves? In the future, If I can, I would only help them but not save them unless they're my family, relatives and friends.And I don't want to be a revolutionist either. I don't wanna die for nothing. Chinese will never thank for heros who died for them, they only thank for leader of revolutionists. See what they were asskissing to Chairman Mao. And I guess if I do so,possibly I'll be treated a realy traitor by them. :wink: That I'm not too cunning to fit in China society doesn't mean I am a fool.


Btw, American cann't afford and also have no duty to liberate China, it must be a suffering war if they do so. Also, I don't think civil rebellion is available. How to get enough army and ammunition? For instance.

3, John Kennedy? He didn't get enough time to prove him be a great president. SO I did't know him so much.But I can interpret what you're making fun of.

(ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country )

Yes, American can do sth for their country because,

1) from their birth, this country has begun protecting them, this country provides the wisest education for them in their childhood, stimulating their talents, encouraging them to think and doing her best to supply a fair, free and democratic place for them.
But in China, we begun to be educated that " CCP was our mother, CCP was always right, and anyone should listen to CCP" And from then on, we experienced stupid education, we suffered unfair policy of entering into colleges measued by different regions we're living, and finally all Chinese would know what a society of China is-------Power, Money and Relationship.
Btw, we're able to learn the son and daughter of officers of CCP, they can easily go to any colleges even if they failed in exams, and they can easily get well-paid job even if they didn't get enough credits.
Yes, if I'm one of their son, I may thank this country either, hehe, but fortunately, I'm not, so I don't lose my direction until now.

2) America can provide the freedom for American as much as she can. American can enjoy many entertaining programs and read news from the world. Most importanly, these news are for citizen's interests, not for high-class.

But in China, we have to see few and stupid programs produced by Mainland. Any kind of TV, Movie and entertainment from overseas must have be censord by China government firstly, let alone news. We can only read what this country wants us to read, not what we want to read.
CCTV and CCP's propaganda machine are monitoring us all the time.
America TV? No, Hongkong's TV? No. Taiwan's? No. So we didn't learn SARS until WTO urge our government, we didn't know the parade of million of Hongkongese unless we logged to forbidden websites.
We didn't dare to discuss the acciddent of Puma anymore because this "Great" country don't allow us to know the wife of son of high officer in Heilongjiang can threaten to kill peasant openly on the street and she really did it. You wanna know more?

3)Being a citizen of US, anyone has the right to criticize officers and even the whole government, and they can express their ideas freely.

But in China, any leader is GREAT MAN only if he didn't control his power. And any officers and local government didn't want to hear different opinions. If someone wants to criticize government policies in public, :evil: just remeber, the more he said, the more extensive his viewpoint spreads, then the more miserable life he gets.

...........................

too many examples. and I'm really tired now. :wink: English comment is still hard for me.

So I'd never feel proud of being a citizen of this country, China, as if a slave wouldnt feel pround for their status no matter who is his master.
Like I said, it's too different between America and China. So American can pride in their nation coz the construction of this country is only for them,neither for Democrat nor for Republican. Surely it's not for personal ones. If you're a Chinese , you should know what has been happening in this country, could you proclaim that China.P.R set up only for Chinese loudly and proudly?

You'd be more welcome if you can reduce the sarcastic tone. :wink:
It's not very friendly. hmm, whatever, up to you. like I said, you're enough nice in comparison with others in China.

Nice discussing with you.

 

[RonBee]

Enjoy getting your replys here. April fool's day is over, so what's funny in western world? Chinese didn't pay attention to this western festival. Me either.

April Fool's Day isn't a big deal. It's just a day when people play tricks on each other (in a good-natured way).

(Say: replies)

Sir Ron,

1, Yep, it's a slaughter in Tiananmen at that time, but until now China leaders don't want to admit it, even if most of overseas Chinese demand it.

It's been called a massacre, too. Either word applies.

2, Hmm, i.e. if one chinese want to apply to the entrance of Postgraduate in China, at first he or she must love CCP ( in fact that only stands for that you should not criticize them), but second, he or she have to take part in politics exam---compulsory one of three exams. ( sigh, China education is a disaster too. Actually most of college students now have to promote to get Master degrees.)

You have to take a political exam to get a postgraduate degree?

(Say: "he or she has to")

 

[claude]

1. China is the country of her people, not of the CCP or any other party.

2. Any party that fails its ppl should fall out of power, Not matter whether it is CCP or whatever else.

3. The reasons that baffle the democracy development of China are complex, some are historical, some are traditional feudal idea or even the outdated but ineradicable philosophy system. (My injudicious knowledge prevent me from analysising what on earth it is.)

4. China do have its problem, but she still make her progress, even maybe the progress is slow, even under the leading of CCP.

5. I do not think you are a traitor, because you did nothing to harm the ppl of your country.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[Cooler]

claude, I am sorry for the 'spokesman' thing.
Now, I respectfully completely disagree with you.

1. China is the country of her people, not of the CCP or any other party.

If a country's constitution directs that it is under the leadership of a particular party and its congress as well, if a country's most important position is all held by members of a particular party, if there is only a party's will but not separation of power, can you tell me that this country represents its people?

2. Any party that fails its ppl should fall out of power, Not matter whether it is CCP or whatever else.

That is not true in N.Korea's case. The N.Korea leaders surely fails its people, but it seems to me that there are no signs that they will be thrown out of power in near future.

3. The reasons that baffle the democracy development of China are complex, some are historical, some are traditional feudal idea or even the outdated but ineradicable philosophy system. (My injudicious knowledge prevent me from analysising what on earth it is.)

The Taiwanese share the same culture and tradition as we mainland Chinese, why don't they have the same problems as us?

4. China do have its problem, but she still make her progress, even maybe the progress is slow, even under the leading of CCP.

No one can deny that we are making progress now. The question is, is it the only way in which we can develop? The CCP directly indicates that, China's development must be led under its leadership.

Frankly, the first thing that the CCP annoys me is that, they are lying. I may not have a problem with them if they admit that western countries are doing better than us in political areas. The fact is, they decline to admit that. Instead, they keep claiming that our people's democratic dictatorship is better than 'western fake democracy'.

 

[claude]

That is alright, cooler. If I were a spokesman of CCP, I would not be that conservative. Perhaps that why I can not be the spokesman.

A peaceful and friendly communication is a good way to eliminate most conflict and prejudice or any misunderstanding, not mention for those who can and will talk in at least 2 languages.

hmmm, I think I should clarify my standpoint first to avoid any further misunderstanding.

I do not think single party despotism is the best system for China, and I do not think we can copy western or american's system either. (well, sounds like a spokesman...)

The most urgent issue maybe not to change the polity system, though I do think it need to be changed.

I understand why so many ppl (me included) especially for those who always indulge in the internet have so much compliants about the current situation, But I insist that the compliant or abuse only can solve nothing.

well, as the democracy in taiwan is concerned, I happen read an article about the democracy in taiwan, It might not prove anything, But perhaps we can see another aspect of the truth.

http://20six.co.uk/yap1971/

'Compliant' or 'sarcasm' is the easiest thing in this world. we are hopefully beyond this.

 

[Cooler]

It is understandable that people heap the blame on the CCP when google was blocked even though the CCP may not be actually behind that, given the fact that the CCP does not want information to flow freely.

And I don't think that it is right for anyone to claim that he(I assume that the people indulging online talking about politics are mostly 'he', but not 'she' ) is living in a perfect country, whether he is in the US or Taiwan, or anywhere in the world.

I agree that sheer complaint or sarcasm cannot solve any problem. When we talk about politics, there are three attitude that we may choose: sheer praise and flattery, constructive suggestions, and complaint and sarcasm. The CCP has enjoyed so much of the first one in the state medie that we, the people online can simply rule it out. And, it is ridiculous to post something like 'I sincerely suggest the CCP (do something) to make it better' on a foreign website(or a domestic one, because no officals would repond to you). Under this circumstance, either we choose not to talk about politics or we choose complaint or saracasm. And there is actually something about the CCP which I figure is very funny and 'tasteful'. The CCP has always been making a fool of us with their theory like 'three representives' , why don't we make fun of them once a while? Very fair, I think.

 

[Red5]

I'm not sure why you are all continuing with these sorts of discussion given that staff here have made it clear that politics is not to be discussed here.

If you missed our notification, you can read it here: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4337

Please stop.