[Grammar] Stuck In The Past Tense

[Jennaith]

Hello,


So, I came across the following sentence that I believe is not correct;

"No leader in the history of mankind have had not listened to someone in his or her lifetime to become a great leader."


As a non-native speaker the best I can come up with is;

1. No leader in the history of mankind have had not to listen to someone in his or her lifetime to become a great leader.
2. No leader in the history of mankind never had to not listen to someone in his or her lifetime to become a great leader.

Please explain to me which one is correct - if any - or how I should write it otherwise.

Thank you in advance for the correct phrase!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Hello,


I came across the following sentence, which I believe is not correct;

"No leader in the history of mankind has not listened to someone in his or her lifetime to become a great leader."

I've corrected the grammar, but it still isn't good. Where did you find it?


As a non-native speaker the best I can come up with is;

1. No leader in the history of mankind have had not to listen to someone in his or her lifetime to become a great leader.
2. No leader in the history of mankind never had to not listen to someone in his or her lifetime to become a great leader.

Both are wrong.

Please explain to me which one is correct - if any - or how I should write it otherwise.

The corrected original sentence is grammatical.

Thank you [STRIKE]in advance[/STRIKE] for the correct wording!

You're welcome.

 

[Jennaith]

Dear Mr. Bernstein,


Thank you for correcting the sentence in question as well as the corrections to my own grammar, which was not that great either.

I found it somewhere on the internet! Some sort of quote / believe.


The original sentence ended at the word; "lifetime"
I thought, that by adding; "to become a great leader", would make it more complete and with that, a better sentence.

Since you are saying that it still isn't good, maybe it helps if I give you the full original version of it since it does have a pre-sentence.

“Listening can let us be shaped into far better individuals” – No leader in the history of mankind have had not listened to someone in his lifetime.


The first sentence also does not sound good. Maybe by writing; "Listening can shape us into far better individuals" is better?

Thank you again!


P.S. I often write; Thank you in advance.
I learned that in school back in the day. Why would you say that this is wrong? Is it simply because it is unnecessary to add?

 

[emsr2d2]

Dear Mr. Bernstein,

1. This isn't a formal letter. There's no need for "Dear" anything.
2. You don't know that Charlie is a "Mr" - they could be male or female.
3. Again, you're not writing a letter so "Mr/Mrs/Miss Bernstein" are all unrequired.

In fact, there is no need for any type of address on posts. Click the "Thank" button to indicate your gratitude for any post. In your response, just go straight in with what you need to say.

 

[Jennaith]

Thanks for that feedback moderator.

I've taken it onboard and shall refrain from using any future formal letter structure on this forum. Especially, your 2nd point is interesting since I believed that Charlie was a male only name. In addition to that, I thought it was a proper thing to do on an English forum and when addressing someone who is occupying his or herself with teaching others.

 

[emsr2d2]

That's OK! We're used to people being overly formal when they first join. We're all volunteers and we're a friendly bunch. There's just no need to make posts any longer than necessary. There's no need for opening greetings or closing thanks etc. All we need is your question, the words/phrases you're asking us about, the source and author of anything you didn't write yourself, and some context.
Things like "Thanks in advance" just take up space and are redundant. There is a "Thank" button in the bottom left-hand corner of every response. Simply click that to show your appreciation after we help you.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Dear Mr. Bernstein,

There are more English speakers here than just me, so don't assume that I'm the only person who will answer you.

Thank you for correcting the sentence in question as well as the corrections to my own grammar, which was not that great either.

I found it somewhere on the internet! Some sort of quote / believe.

The original sentence ended at the word; "lifetime."

I thought [no comma] that adding "to become a great leader" would make it more complete and with that, a better sentence.

Since you are saying that it still isn't good, maybe it helps if I give you the full original version of it since it does have a pre-sentence.

“Listening can help shape us into far better individuals. No leader in the history of mankind has not listened to someone in her or his lifetime.

The first sentence also does not sound good. Maybe writing "Listening can shape us into far better individuals" is better.

Yes, that's much better. Only use question marks at the ends of questions.

Thank you again!

You're welcome.

P.S. I often write; Thank you in advance.

It's obviously in advance. How could it not be? Just say "Thank you."

I learned that in school back in the day.

You'd be amazed at how many stupid things they tried to teach me in school.

Why would you say that this is wrong? Is it simply because it is unnecessary to add?

Yes. Respect your readers' time by being concise. Don't add words for decoration. Only use words that add meaning.

That's why I deleted "So" from the start of your message. It meant nothing.

Remember that not all writing is good writing. You found an example of bad writing online. You were smart to ask us about it.

 

[Jennaith]

I am happy that you decided to answer me since it became an interesting thread because of it.
I am also pleased to see your editing corrections on my own writing as well.


No leader in the history of mankind has not listened to someone in her or his lifetime.

Is there a particular reason why you changed it to “her or his” instead of “his or her”


It's obviously in advance. How could it not be? Just say "Thank you."

I don’t use "Thank you in advance" all the time. I often just write “Thank you.” instead. It depends on the content, and the importance of the expected action from the respondent.

 

[Tarheel]

I'm not sure what the writer was getting at. Everybody has been influenced by somebody.

You will find all kinds of things on the internet. The quality varies.

 

[emsr2d2]

1. No leader in the history of mankind has not listened to someone in her or his lifetime.
Is there a particular reason why you changed it to “her or his” instead of “his or her”

2. It's obviously in advance. How could it not be? Just say "Thank you."
I don’t use "Thank you in advance" all the time. I often just write “Thank you.” instead. It depends on the content, and the importance of the expected action from the respondent.

1. It's true that "his or her" is the way it's been worded traditionally but there's no reason not to mix it up a bit. Having said that, I'd have changed "his" to "their".
2. As per my previous post, don't even say "Thank you" before we've done anything. Wait until someone responds, then click "Thank" on that specific post.

 

[Tdol]

No leader has ever become a great leader by not listening.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I am happy that you decided to answer me since it became an interesting thread because of it.
I am also pleased to see your editing corrections on my own writing as well.

You come here to improve your English, so we correct your writing to be helpful.

No leader in the history of mankind has not listened to someone in her or his lifetime.

Is there a particular reason why you changed it to “her or his” instead of “his or her”

No. They mean the same thing. But why should the guy always go first?

It's obviously in advance. How could it not be? Just say "Thank you."

I don’t use "Thank you in advance" all the time. I often just write “Thank you.” instead. It depends on the content, and the importance of the expected action from the respondent.

It's meaningless, so I discourage it.

You found a convoluted piece of writing. It shows why clear, straightforward writing is easier to understand.