such as II

Status
Not open for further replies.

navi tasan

Key Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
Persian
Home Country
Iran
Current Location
United States
Consider:
I didn't make such big mistakes as you did.


Which is the case:

a-I did make mistakes, but not big mistakes; you made big mistakes
b-I did make big mistakes, but not as big as the ones you made
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
navi tasan said:
Consider:
I didn't make such big mistakes as you did.


Which is the case:

a-I did make mistakes, but not big mistakes; you made big mistakes
b-I did make big mistakes, but not as big as the ones you made

I don't like the sentence.

One could say "I didn't make such big mistakes" (in the past, etc.).

There is already a comparison in there. It doesn't work with "as you did".

We would say "I didn't make mistakes as big as you did." or
"I didn't make a mistake as big as yours."
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
navi tasan said:
Consider:
I didn't make such big mistakes as you did.


Which is the case:

a-I did make mistakes, but not big mistakes; you made big mistakes
b-I did make big mistakes, but not as big as the ones you made

I don't like the sentence.

One could say "I didn't make such big mistakes" (in the past, etc.).

There is already a comparison in there. It doesn't work with "as you did".

We would say "I didn't make mistakes as big as you did." or
"I didn't make a mistake as big as yours."


I think it depends on different situation.Right? Two people are discussing about Ron.


Dialog
Speaker A: Ron's going to far! It's ridiculous.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's making wave this time.

Speaker A: I'll say! I won't make such a huge mistake (as he did)

Sometimes, it depends on the target person you are talking about.
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
I think it depends on different situation.Right? Two people are discussing about Ron.


Dialog
Speaker A: Ron's going to far! It's ridiculous.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's making wave this time.

Speaker A: I'll say! I won't make such a huge mistake (as he did)

Sometimes, it depends on the target person you are talking about.

For me, it still doesn't work with "as he did".

I won't make as huge a mistake as he did.
I won't make a similar mistake.
I won't make such a huge mistake when I post.

etc.
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
I think it depends on different situation.Right? Two people are discussing about Ron.


Dialog
Speaker A: Ron's going to far! It's ridiculous.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's making wave this time.

Speaker A: I'll say! I won't make such a huge mistake (as he did)

Sometimes, it depends on the target person you are talking about.

For me, it still doesn't work with "as he did".

I won't make as huge a mistake as he did.
I won't make a similar mistake.
I won't make such a huge mistake when I post.

etc.
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I think it depends on different situation.Right? Two people are discussing about Ron.


Dialog
Speaker A: Ron's going too far! It's ridiculous.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's making waves this time.

Speaker A: I'll say! I won't make such a huge mistake (as he did)

Sometimes, it depends on the target person you are talking about.

For me, it still doesn't work with "as he did".

I won't make as huge a mistake as he did.
I won't make a similar mistake.
I won't make such a huge mistake when I post.

etc.

Mike, I'm wondering that sometimes you said you don't like the sentence? What do you mean by saying so? Does somebody else like it? Or it's just idiosyncrasy? The sentence is grammatically right, isn't it?

I won't make such a huge mistake as he did. 'did' functions as 'verb phrase substitution' of the action happened before, which is 'he made a huge mistake.'

Similiar examples
1. I had a great time as everybody did. (correct)
2. I made a stupid mistake as Susan did. (correct)
3. I can't tell story as interestingly as you do. (correct)
4. I can't tell such an interesting story like yours. (correct)



:? :?
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
I think it depends on different situation.Right? Two people are discussing about Ron.


Dialog
Speaker A: Ron's going too far! It's ridiculous.

Speaker B: Yeah, he's making waves this time.

Speaker A: I'll say! I won't make such a huge mistake (as he did)

Sometimes, it depends on the target person you are talking about.

For me, it still doesn't work with "as he did".

I won't make as huge a mistake as he did.
I won't make a similar mistake.
I won't make such a huge mistake when I post.

etc.

Mike, I'm wondering that sometimes you said you don't like the sentence? What do you mean by saying so? Does somebody else like it? Or it's just idiosyncrasy? The sentence is grammatically right, isn't it?

I won't make such a huge mistake as he did. 'did' functions as 'verb phrase substitution' of the action happened before, which is 'he made a huge mistake.'

Similiar examples
1. I had a great time as everybody did. (correct)
2. I made a stupid mistake as Susan did. (correct)
3. I can't tell story as interestingly as you do. (correct)
4. I can't tell such an interesting story like yours. (correct)



:? :?
 

Francois

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
I agree with professor Mike. Your sentence doesn't look good to me either (idiosyncrasy is a bit weird in that context too). I actually don't think it is grammaticaly correct (to be confirmed).

Mike said:
I won't make as huge a mistake as he did.
I won't make a similar mistake.
I won't make such a huge mistake when I post
Those are fine (of course).

Blacknomi said:
1. I had a great time as everybody did. (correct)
2. I made a stupid mistake as Susan did. (correct)
3. I can't tell story as interestingly as you do. (correct)
4. I can't tell such an interesting story like yours. (correct)
Only 3. looks ok to me (I would use 'stories' though).

FRC
 

Francois

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
I agree with professor Mike. Your sentence doesn't look good to me either (idiosyncrasy is a bit weird in that context too). I actually don't think it is grammaticaly correct (to be confirmed).

Mike said:
I won't make as huge a mistake as he did.
I won't make a similar mistake.
I won't make such a huge mistake when I post
Those are fine (of course).

Blacknomi said:
1. I had a great time as everybody did. (correct)
2. I made a stupid mistake as Susan did. (correct)
3. I can't tell story as interestingly as you do. (correct)
4. I can't tell such an interesting story like yours. (correct)
Only 3. looks ok to me (I would use 'stories' though).

FRC
 

navi tasan

Key Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
Persian
Home Country
Iran
Current Location
United States
I think it would be better to put a comma in 1 and 2.

1a-I had a great time, as everybody did.
or:
1b-I had a great time, as did everybody.
(unless you want to say that you did it in the same manner as everybody else, which is a strange thing to say.)

2a-I made a stupid mistake, as Susan did.
or:
2b-I made a stupid mistake, as did Susan.

Again, your sentence would be Ok if you made the mistake in the same manner as Susan.


François is right. You have to say "a story" or "stories" in 3, but I really think that is a typo.

As for 4, I think you need "as" instead of "like". But I think Mike might disagree and throw the sentence away lock, stock and barrel.

4a-"I can't tell an interesting story such as yours."
might be the best choice.

I'd like to know what native speakers and especially Mike think of all this though.

I never trust a non-native speaker, specially not myself!
 

navi tasan

Key Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
Persian
Home Country
Iran
Current Location
United States
I think it would be better to put a comma in 1 and 2.

1a-I had a great time, as everybody did.
or:
1b-I had a great time, as did everybody.
(unless you want to say that you did it in the same manner as everybody else, which is a strange thing to say.)

2a-I made a stupid mistake, as Susan did.
or:
2b-I made a stupid mistake, as did Susan.

Again, your sentence would be Ok if you made the mistake in the same manner as Susan.


François is right. You have to say "a story" or "stories" in 3, but I really think that is a typo.

As for 4, I think you need "as" instead of "like". But I think Mike might disagree and throw the sentence away lock, stock and barrel.

4a-"I can't tell an interesting story such as yours."
might be the best choice.

I'd like to know what native speakers and especially Mike think of all this though.

I never trust a non-native speaker, specially not myself!
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
Mike, I'm wondering that sometimes you said you don't like the sentence? What do you mean by saying so? Does somebody else like it? Or it's just idiosyncrasy? The sentence is grammatically right, isn't it?

Usually, when I say I don't like a sentence, it means that I think it is incorrect. Every now and then it just means that it is clumsy.

I won't make such a huge mistake as he did. 'did' functions as 'verb phrase substitution' of the action happened before, which is 'he made a huge mistake.'

No, it is not correct. We use the compund conjunction as....as to make a comparison. Or we use "such" to make a comparison. We don''t use them together.

I won't make as huge a mistake as he did. (Note the use of the word "huge" before the indefinitie article. This is an unusual construction.)

I won't make such a huge mistake. (The comparison is implied.)

Similiar examples
1. I had a great time as everybody did. (correct)
2. I made a stupid mistake as Susan did. (correct)
3. I can't tell story as interestingly as you do. (correct)
4. I can't tell such an interesting story like yours. (correct)



:? :?

1. I had as great a time as everybody else (had). (comparison)
1. I had a great time, as everybody did. (no comparison) (all had fun)

2. I made as stupid a mistake as Susan (made). (comparison)
2. I made a stupid mistake, as Susan did. (no comparison) (both made mistakes)

3. I can't tell a story as interestingly as you (do). (comparison)
3. I can't tell as interesting a story as you (do). (comparison)

4. I can't tell such an interesting story. (implied comparison)
4. I can't tell an interesting story like yours.

Does that help?
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
navi tasan said:
I never trust a non-native speaker, specially not myself!


Thank you for the details, navi tasan. :D

I can't figure out your last sentence. Do you mean you don't trust yoursefl? It's sounds grammatically incorrect, but I could be wrong. :oops:
 

Francois

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Yes, as a non-native speaker he/she doesn't trust himself/herself -- especially himself/herself

FRC
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
4. I can't tell an interesting story like yours.

Does that help?


Yes, that helps. :D

Question 1
How do you like my following sentences?
1-a. I won't make such a huge mistakes like his. -->comparison
1-b. I won't make a huge mistakes like his. -->comparison


Question 2
1. I am as tall as you (are) -->comparison
2. Jack is as perfect as John (is). -->comparison
==>I've noticed that the adjective in #1 is gradable, whereas the adjective in #2 is non-gradable.

3. I am taller than you are. -->comparison
4. Jack is more perfect than John is. --> comparison but weird, because I ==>think 'perfect' is an adjective that reaches its extreme. 'More' clashes with 'perfect'. Is that correct?


:?
 

MikeNewYork

VIP Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
Question 1
How do you like my following sentences?
1-a. I won't make such a huge mistakes like his. -->comparison
1-b. I won't make a huge mistakes like his. -->comparison

1-b is great.

1-a That such has got to go! :wink:


Question 2
1. I am as tall as you (are) -->comparison
2. Jack is as perfect as John (is). -->comparison
==>I've noticed that the adjective in #1 is gradable, whereas the adjective in #2 is non-gradable.

3. I am taller than you are. -->comparison
4. Jack is more perfect than John is. --> comparison but weird, because I ==>think 'perfect' is an adjective that reaches its extreme. 'More' clashes with 'perfect'. Is that correct?


:?

1. good
2. OK. It is a bit strange, but I'd take it.

3. good.
4. More clashes with perfect in many contexts, but not all. For example.

John would be perfect for the role of Hamlet.
I think Fred would be more perfect.

When perfect refers to matching the rewuirements of a standard, I see the word as somewhat gradable.
 

RonBee

Moderator
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
blacknomi said:
navi tasan said:
I never trust a non-native speaker, specially not myself!


Thank you for the details, navi tasan. :D

I can't figure out your last sentence. Do you mean you don't trust yoursefl? It's sounds grammatically incorrect, but I could be wrong. :oops:

No, I don't think you are wrong. In that form we would use me and not myself. The word myself would not be acting as a reflexive pronoun in that sentence. Try:
  • I never trust a non-native speaker, specially not me!
Or:
  • I never trust a non-native speaker, and I specially don't trust myself.

:)

(Although the meaning comes through, the grammar is, I think, incorrect.)

8)
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
MikeNewYork said:
blacknomi said:
Question 1
How do you like my following sentences?
1-a. I won't make such a huge mistakes like his. -->comparison
1-b. I won't make a huge mistakes like his. -->comparison

1-b is great.
1-a That such has got to go! :wink:

And this?
Speaker A: I won't make such a huge mistake! :D

Speaker B: What mistakes?

Speaker A: Like yours. :?:



I understand the "perfect" part now. Thank a bunch. :D
 

blacknomi

Key Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Member Type
Student or Learner
RonBee said:
I never trust a non-native speaker, specially not me!
I never trust a non-native speaker, and I specially don't trust myself.

(Although the meaning comes through, the grammar is, I think, incorrect.)


Hi, Bee

Can I omit 'not' in your first sentence? :D
 

Tdol

Editor, UsingEnglish.com
Staff member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Member Type
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
Omit away.;-)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top