The Devil is gonna be back!!!!!

[Tdol]

The Vikings weren't pirates- they attacked Britain and occupied the north, they colonised Iceland and Greenland, and settled in America. They even attacked Constantinople (Istanbul). They were warlike and brutal, but they were also great explorers and made pioneering sea voyages. ;-)

 

[eric2004]

Wow, many thanks, now I totally understand you guys. It's very nice to hear you guys teach me some historical events of western world.
Maybe it can help me to not mention some topics making you embarassed. :wink:

And British was colonized by others once? Happy to hear that because you guys bullied us once in 19th. :lol: How to say that of your country?
Never sundown Britain? It's when you were colonizing the world.

 

[RonBee]

Britain has been invaded several times--by the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, the Vikings, the Danes, and the Normans. (The Vikings had previously invaded Normandy. Those Vikings really got around.)

Tdol, do you have the dates for those events? (The Norman invasion took place in 1066. It was quite a year.)

Eric, the expression you were trying to think of is The sun never sets on the British Empire. That was probably true when the British owned Canada, Australia, and India.

 

[eric2004]

Britain has been invaded several times--by the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, the Vikings, the Danes, and the Normans. (The Vikings had previously invaded Normandy. Those Vikings really got around.)

Tdol, do you have the dates for those events? (The Norman invasion took place in 1066. It was quite a year.)

Eric, the expression you were trying to think of is The sun never sets on the British Empire. That was probably true when the British owned Canada, Australia, and India.

:wink: British bragged too much. Why didnt they try to conquer the sun, then they'd become a real "sun never sets on the British Empire".
Hmm, British kings are very different from Chinese emperors. We very much laid stress on the blood of royalty, but they seldom. And also, there is only one female emperor in Chinese thousands years' history. :wink: She was really something, wasn't she?

Btw, British ever ruled over you guys. :wink: But I believed that just because of this, Washington and his followers was able to create this great America, with an ideal of freedom and democracy.

In this way, we're yet under the control of emperors. Crappy us.

 

[Tdol]

The Romans cam in 55BC I think. The Saxons and Vikings came over a long period- it wasn't a single war. ;-)

 

[RonBee]

Britain has been invaded several times--by the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, the Vikings, the Danes, and the Normans. (The Vikings had previously invaded Normandy. Those Vikings really got around.)

Tdol, do you have the dates for those events? (The Norman invasion took place in 1066. It was quite a year.)

Eric, the expression you were trying to think of is The sun never sets on the British Empire. That was probably true when the British owned Canada, Australia, and India.

:wink: British bragged too much. Why didnt they try to conquer the sun, then they'd become a real "sun never sets on the British Empire".
Hmm, British kings are very different from Chinese emperors. We very much laid stress on the blood of royalty, but they seldom. And also, there is only one female emperor in Chinese thousands years' history. :wink: She was really something, wasn't she?

Btw, British ever ruled over you guys. :wink: But I believed that just because of this, Washington and his followers was able to create this great America, with an ideal of freedom and democracy.

In this way, we're yet under the control of emperors. Crappy us.

If anybody was going to have an empire it should have been the British. They were perhaps the most benign conquerors the world has ever known. Of course, they did have some problems with their colonies. :wink:

Because the colonists in the New World (especially those in the thirteen colonies later to become the United States) considered themselves British citizens they believed they had certain rights because they were British citizens. Indeed, the events that led to the American Revolution occurred largely because the Americans asserted their rights as British citizens. (The conflict was not entirely and "us vs. them" thing. The Americans had allies in Britain, including in Parliament.)

The concept of limiting the powers of the king and of government itself can be traced all the way back to the Magna Charta.

At one time China had the greatest civilization on earth. It is also true that at one time the Muslim world had a culture that was in many ways superior to that of the West. Things change.

8)

 

[eric2004]

What's Magna Charta, Sir? :?:

"benign conquerors" :wink: Can't believe you'd use such word to define British colonists. Which is way too different from the education we were taught. But as far I'm concerned, British guns and cannons not only brought the most horrible humiliation of China history ever, but let us know the western civilization in some way. A coin has two sides.

Plus, it's really a shame that some of Honkongese didn't even wanna come back to homeland in 1997 after they had been "colonized" by "evil" British. :?: sarcastic but kinda funny.

Btw, but now, America might seem to be the most possible empire in the world, which is really taken a threat by some other countries. Don't you think so?

Ps, we're talking about history but politics. So it didn't cross the lines here, did it?

 

[RonBee]

What's Magna Charta, Sir? :?:

Here is an explanation of the Magna Charta:

• http://www.magnacharta.com/

The text:

• http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/magna-carta.html

The text, with an explanation:

• www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/magnacarta.html

"benign conquerors" :wink: Can't believe you'd use such word to define British colonists. Which is way too different from the education we were taught. But as far I'm concerned, British guns and cannons not only brought the most horrible humiliation of China history ever, but let us know the western civilization in some way. A coin has two sides.

I was using the term "benign" in a relative sense. Compare them (the British) to the Japanese. Is it even close? The Japanese did horrible things in China--rape and murder. Horrible things. I don't think British rule anywhere compares to what the Japanese did. Compare the British to almost anybody else and they come off looking pretty good.

Plus, it's really a shame that some of Honkongese didn't even wanna come back to homeland in 1997 after they had been "colonized" by "evil" British. :?: sarcastic but kinda funny.

Your remarks "sarcastic but kinda funny" seem to be a comment on your own comments. (I agree.) Under British rule the people of Hong Kong became one of the most prosperous and free people anywhere. What did the British do in Hong Kong? They enforced laws against criminal behavior (murder, robbery, etc.). Other than that, they pretty much let people alone. It turned out to be a pretty good deal for the people of Hong Kong. As you know, many people left Hong Kong rather than take the chance that they might wind up being ruled by the Communists.

If I had to be ruled by somebody and for some reason it couldn't be the British I would pick the Americans to do the job. The Americans treated the Japanese much much better than the Japanese treated people they had conquered. (The Japanese treated their POWs horribly.)

Btw, but now, America might seem to be the most possible empire in the world, which is really taken a threat by some other countries. Don't you think so?

Ps, we're talking about history but politics. So it didn't cross the lines here, did it?

An empire is "a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially : one having an emperor as chief of state" (See: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=empire) By that definition, China qualifies as an empire. (It rules Tibet.) Most Americans would not consider the United States an empire.

If you meant to say that The United States is the most powerful country in the world, that is true. Certainly, militarily speaking, The United States is the most powerful country in the world. Does that automatically make the United States a threat to other countries? Some people seem to think so, but look at history. The greatest threats to world peace have always come from dictatorships. Examples: Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, the U.S.S.R. (BTW, Japan is technically an empire. The titular head of Japan is an emperor.)

No, I don't think we have crossed any lines. (If we do "cross any lines" we can continue this conversation in PMs.)

8)

 

[eric2004]

:wink: I'd rather get your email address, dear Ron, because I kinda dislike PM in forums. Could I?

Japanese? They were very brutal and evil to Asian in the former half of 20 century. But I won't deny that they're the most excellent or terribly strongest race in Asia. See their huge progress in economica and political systems, which really makes Chinese unhappy. And Japanese knida despise other Asian people because they think they should follow American and European steps. For me, It's a good idea, but for someone else, this is regarded as a symbol of deserting native culture.


HongKong, let's see what will happen. we all have known what happened in there. Now I only hope we won't lose the last happy land---Taiwan, where some of Chinese---though now they only think themselves as Taiwanese and hate being called Chinese-----are carrying on demoratic regime, which never happened for Chinese. Good luck for them, whatever.


I really take surprise by your word here. Seems like you prefer being ruled by British to by American? Am I right? :wink: In China, you're surely being a traitor. :wink: :wink:

:wink: Whatever you said, dear Ron. American power really let someone in this world uneasy, sooooo some people become anti-American. Are there such people in western Europe, your allies?


Tibet? :wink: You're on the side of Tibet Independence?Dear Ron, don't mention it to common Chinese, please. They would curse you if you do.
In my opinion, I know our authority sucked, but their one is more horrible. Tibetan are totally out-of-date, blindly superstitious. Except religion, they get nothing to pursue a happy life. They're unwiser then Iraqii. But whatever, I don't care if they really wanna split out from China. If we provided them a happy,rich, free life similar with western world, how could they wanna be independent.

It's really nice talking with you. Dear Ron. You're the only one here who'd like to show me your thoughts.
:wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[eric2004]

Btw, dear Ron sound like kinda gay. What would you like me to call you, Sir Ron?

 

[RonBee]

:wink: I'd rather get your email address, dear Ron, because I kinda dislike PM in forums. Could I?

Unfortunately, I do not even have an email address right now. It might be possible that you could send me an email, but I wouldn't get it.

I can send PMs right now (on this forum). That's about it.

:Japanese? They were very brutal and evil to Asian in the former half of 20 century. But I won't deny that they're the most excellent or terribly strongest race in Asia. See their huge progress in economica and political systems, which really makes Chinese unhappy. And Japanese knida despise other Asian people because they think they should follow American and European steps. For me, It's a good idea, but for someone else, this is regarded as a symbol of deserting native culture.

They Japanese were taught that they were a superior race: superior to all other Asian peoples. (They were also taught to obey orders unquestionly.) That kind of thinking (remarkably similar to Nazi teachings) led to the brutal, horrific treatment of people in territotories the Japanese conquered. On the plus side, the Japanese have been very adaptive. They have been quite willing to adopt new ways of doing things when they have decided that those new ways would be beneficial to them.

:HongKong, let's see what will happen. we all have known what happened in there. Now I only hope we won't lose the last happy land---Taiwan, where some of Chinese---though now they only think themselves as Taiwanese and hate being called Chinese-----are carrying on demoratic regime, which never happened for Chinese. Good luck for them, whatever.

It does seem that the Taiwanese are trying to make for themselves an entirely different country: free, democratic, and independent. I think the Taiwanese do not want anybody to tell them what to do. That attitude is very American of them. :wink:

:I really take surprise by your word here. Seems like you prefer being ruled by British to by American? Am I right? :wink: In China, you're surely being a traitor. :wink: :wink:

No, I am an American. I don't want to be ruled by anybody. :wink:

(Most countries that used to be British colonies remain connected to the UK as part of the British Commonwealth.)

::wink: Whatever you said, dear Ron. American power really let someone in this world uneasy, sooooo some people become anti-American. Are there such people in western Europe, your allies?

I think much anti-Americanism can be explained by one word: envy. Unfortunately, we have been battling totalitarianism for a long time. First it was Nazism; then it was Communism; now it is Islamofacism.

We have allies in Western Europe, Gerhard Shroeder (the German prime minister), as I understand it, ran on an anti-American platform to get re-elected. Also, there is much anti-Semitism in Europe right now. (A recent poll indicated that Europeans think that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.)

:Tibet? :wink: You're on the side of Tibet Independence?Dear Ron, don't mention it to common Chinese, please. They would curse you if you do.
In my opinion, I know our authority sucked, but their one is more horrible. Tibetan are totally out-of-date, blindly superstitious. Except religion, they get nothing to pursue a happy life. They're unwiser then Iraqii. But whatever, I don't care if they really wanna split out from China. If we provided them a happy,rich, free life similar with western world, how could they wanna be independent.

Well, I do think Tibetans want to be independent. They may be totally out-of-date and blindly superstitious, but don't they have the right to be that way if they want to?

:It's really nice talking with you. Dear Ron. You're the only one here who'd like to show me your thoughts.
:wink: :wink: :wink:

Thanks. I do my best.

 

[RonBee]

Call me Ron, RonBee, Sir Ron, or Ron the Poet.

:wink:

 

[eric2004]

Ron poet, do you think you should post some poems of yours here so that we won't think you just bragged?

Sounds like we're pretty much like old Japanese now. We're taught that we're the great nationality in the world and we ought to obey the orders or even devote our lives for developing or defending our country.

It's amazed for me that you, as an American guy, do know so much other countries' historical events. Because some books explained that American, due to their geographic situation, do not care about what happened in European or Asian in the last thousands of years, I thought that you guys might be a little ignorant to the world. But you really proved those books and me wrong.

Objectively I don't think Taiwan's independence is a good idea, but emotionally I can understand them. After all, they've been waiting for our development too long to stand the present situation of their,----neither a country nor a state.

American standard answer---------you dont' wanna be ruled by anybody. Sigh, you should be very pround of saying that, but for me, I wish I'll be able to answer like yours one day. As a human being, I really hate to be interfered too much by others. News-blocked, TV restriction, Movie censorship(not like yours), as well as speech control, etc. I don't like wasting my whole life just in order to dream of a bright future for my offsprings------Communism, like a heaven,right?

Israel ? why? Because they're Jews or their conflict with Palestinian? :!: This rings a bell, Ron. There is a saying in China that American support Israel because many Jews members control American congress. Is it a right reason?

Another question here. If it's a truth that some American officials demanded your soilders to mistreat Iraq captives, what would normal American do?

Nah, I don't support Tibetans' independence. I do not support any kind of religious country in the world. Being a citizenship in such country is totally a disaster for people like me. I've learned there are some arms conflicts between Uigurs and Hans( most of Chinese). But whatever, I do believe this would be more tragical and degenerated if those nationalities claim their independence.

:wink: Btw, speaking for many Chinese anti-American, what you're gonna do if Hawaii or New York want to be independece? I mean they want to rip apart from America? This question have been letting me stuck in such topic with Chinese for a long while. :wink: Now you're American, and I'm expecting your answers.

 

[RonBee]

Ron poet, do you think you should post some poems of yours here so that we won't think you just bragged?

Here is a new one:

• https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=27893#27893

 

[RonBee]

Sounds like we're pretty much like old Japanese now. We're taught that we're the great nationality in the world and we ought to obey the orders or even devote our lives for developing or defending our country.

The Japanese once had a saying: "Duty is as heavy as a mountain. Death is as light as a feather." In other words, a Japanese was supposed to be willing to sacrifice his life for his country if called upon to do so. It was a Japanese citizen's duty to obey, and to be called upon to give his life for his country was considered an honor. It was considered to bring shame on a person if he was captured instead of killed in combat. Indeed, even to live was considered a disgrace if the person failed in his mission.

 

[RonBee]

.

It's amazed for me that you, as an American guy, do know so much other countries' historical events. Because some books explained that American, due to their geographic situation, do not care about what happened in European or Asian in the last thousands of years, I thought that you guys might be a little ignorant to the world. But you really proved those books and me wrong.

• It's amazing to me that you, an American, know so much about the historical events of other countries. Because in some books I read that Americans, due to their geographic situation, do not care about the history of Europe or Asia, I thought that you guys might be a little ignorant about the outside world. But you really proved those books and me wrong.

I don't really think I am that knowledgeable, but thanks.

One should always be careful about generalizing about an entire people. Some Americans know little. Others know much. Certainly, since this country (USA) was founded by Europeans, we Americans tend to know more about European history than about Asian history.

 

[RonBee]

Objectively I don't think Taiwan's independence is a good idea, but emotionally I can understand them. After all, they've been waiting for our development too long to stand the present situation of their,----neither a country nor a state.

I think Taiwan is already independent. They are just not supposed to say they are.

American standard answer---------you dont' wanna be ruled by anybody. Sigh, you should be very pround of saying that, but for me, I wish I'll be able to answer like yours one day. As a human being, I really hate to be interfered too much by others. News-blocked, TV restriction, Movie censorship(not like yours), as well as speech control, etc. I don't like wasting my whole life just in order to dream of a bright future for my offsprings------Communism, like a heaven,right?

I guess you are right that that is the standard American answer. :wink:

Wasn't Communism supposed to lead to a worker's paradise? :wink:

Israel ? why? Because they're Jews or their conflict with Palestinian? :!: This rings a bell, Ron. There is a saying in China that American support Israel because many Jews members control American congress. Is it a right reason?

Americans do not support Israel because it is a Jewish state but because it is a democracy. Jewish voters make up only four percent of the electorate. That would make it very difficult for them to control Congress. It is highly unlikely (to say the least) that they even have any such ambition.)

Another question here. If it's a truth that some American officials demanded your soilders to mistreat Iraq captives, what would normal American do?

What I do know is that American soldiers are not supposed to follow an unlawful order. Of course, that means they are also supposed to know the difference between an lawful order and an unlawful one.

It is perhaps important to note that the abuses came to light because they were reported by an American soldier.

Nah, I don't support Tibetans' independence. I do not support any kind of religious country in the world. Being a citizenship in such country is totally a disaster for people like me. I've learned there are some arms conflicts between Uigurs and Hans( most of Chinese). But whatever, I do believe this would be more tragical and degenerated if those nationalities claim their independence.

Well, Tibet was once an independent country, wasn't it? In any case, you certainly have a right to your opinion.

:wink: Btw, speaking for many Chinese anti-American, what you're gonna do if Hawaii or New York want to be independece? I mean they want to rip apart from America? This question have been letting me stuck in such topic with Chinese for a long while. :wink: Now you're American, and I'm expecting your answers.

If the citizens decided that they wanted Hawaii to be an independent country, we would have to let them do that, wouldn't we? If we would let Hawaii become independent, we would have to let New York do it too, wouldn't we?

(Sorry for the short answers. I had longer ones, but they disappeared. )

 

[RonBee]

• "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression."

--Thomas Paine


See:

• http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/paine.htm

 

[eric2004]

Glad to see your posts again, Ron poet. :wink:

1, We have the similar saying and doctrine as Japanese. :wink: But the difference is that we are more inclined to make use of other's sacrifice. So that's why we weren't abe to win Japanese in that battle. And some of us are still hating them very very much and hoping to do the same on them in the future, such as masacre and rape.

2, :wink: I got a question, Ron. How were you taught about your native history in class? I mean America just has a short term of history, unlike what we have in almost 3000 years' history. We didn't know world history very well because most of our time had been spent on ours own.

3,Nah, Ron, you're not right here. Taiwan could be a country named "China People" or "China Nationality", which was constructed before China.P.R and was beat by CCP among 1945 and 1949. Now Taiwanese just wanna claim their independence with a brand new name, totally spliting apart with China. I'm not sure I make me clear here because it's really a long historical story.

4, I figure that Communism is only supposed to set up a virtual and false dream of heaven and perfect country, but in fact all of rulers using Communism merely focus on how to take advantage of people's benefits. What a devil theory.

5, Thanks, Ron poet, now I might uderstand that Jewish thing a little well.

6, So that means American soldiers might be able to reject a command, like broodbath or torment captives? Hmm, for example, even though Iraqii brutally killed your soldiers, ripped their corpse, if some of yours did the same for revenge, you Americans wouldn't be with this sort of behaviors? :?:

7, :wink: Dear Ron, you should know China has a very long history. Any part of China land was once being a small country. And trust me, Tibetans' old reign before 1700's was an entire religious, brain-washed,oppressive regime. It sucked.

8, :wink: Ron poet, then why did you have a civil before? Why didn't you just divide to two countries? Is it ture that most of American would think this the way like yours? It's really refreshing my mind. I'm very interested in your explaination next, because what we've been educated is sovereignty and solidarity of one nation is the most essential thing for her people, which is the reason Chinese will want to re-occupy Taiwan recklessly if she's independent.

9, :wink: Tell you a pop saying in China, " Not friends, must be enemies." Some Chinese said it's derived from American politician after 911. (You know, same meaning. I'm not sure its English version.) Is it true?

 

[RonBee]

Glad to see your posts again, Ron poet. :wink:

1, We have the similar saying and doctrine as Japanese. :wink: But the difference is that we are more inclined to make use of other's sacrifice. So that's why we weren't abe to win Japanese in that battle. And some of us are still hating them very very much and hoping to do the same on them in the future, such as masacre and rape.

(Say: "That's why we weren't able to defeat the Japanese.")

Your words certainly are thought-provoking. I want to say something meaninful in response, but I am not sure what it would be. It does seem that some wounds are very slow to heal. And that is understandable. There is one thing I think we shouldn't forget. And that is that in committing brutal acts we brutalize our victims, but we also brutalize ourselves. 8)

2, :wink: I got a question, Ron. How were you taught about your native history in class? I mean America just has a short term of history, unlike what we have in almost 3000 years' history. We didn't know world history very well because most of our time had been spent on ours own.

It's been a while since I have been into a classroom. I'll have to dig deep into my memory. :wink:

People came to live here for various reasons. One of those reasons was to explore new opportunities. The colonists considered themselves British citizens and regarded themselves as having certain rights because they were British citizens.

One of the things we "learned" in school was the myth of a young George Washington chopping down a cherry tree. ("Father, I cannot tell a lie.") Somebody (Parson Weems) made that up. :wink: