The Wordsmith Workshop

[Lynxear]

Wordsmithing is the act of rewriting something over and over again with the goal of making it better. In a written legal contract it is used to fine tune the document to remove any uncertain language. In poetry it is used to take an initial draft of a poem and tweak the writing to make it sound better and take some of the wordiness out of the script.

Rarely is a poem to the poet's satisfaction when it is first written. We write and rewrite the verse until we are satisfied with the result.

Rather than ask authors of poems posted in this forum if they wish help in rewriting their work, I will create this thread.

If you wish to have a poem reviewed and suggestions made as to how it may be improved, post it in this thread and we shall see what we can do. Suggestions for improvement can come from anyone....not just me.

 

[bianca]

I often have a feeling that I write without thinking. Some people ask me what my poems are about, but i can't give them a straight answer. I don't write often, but when I do I start out with an idea, an wind up with a totally different poem - which takes me by surprise. I read and re-read it and try to figure out what I meant to say. Read this poem, for instance: what's time got to do with the content? Nothing... But I somehow feel it's the right title - for no logical, obvious reason. Am I being strange?


Time

I won't take your time, but follow
back into my past alone.
What is time, when words ring hollow
smashed against a heart of stone.

I can feel the haven rockin'
and the ocean brawling through.
When the rage is set, it's over
and I'm drowning
in you...

Bianca, Aug. 07

 

[Lynxear]

Time

I won't take your time, but follow
back into my past alone.
What is time, when words ring hollow
smashed against a heart of stone.

I can feel the haven rockin'
and the ocean brawling through.
When the rage is set, it's over
and I'm drowning
in you...

Bianca, Aug. 07

I often have a feeling that I write without thinking. Some people ask me what my poems are about, but i can't give them a straight answer. I don't write often, but when I do I start out with an idea, an wind up with a totally different poem - which takes me by surprise. I read and re-read it and try to figure out what I meant to say. Read this poem, for instance: what's time got to do with the content? Nothing... But I somehow feel it's the right title - for no logical, obvious reason. Am I being strange?

As far as the title goes, if it has meaning for you then it is the right title. However if you are writing to share your work with others then it should relate to the poem in a more obvious way, simply for it to be satisfying to the reader.

I know what you mean when you start with one idea and it changes as you begin to write. For me, it is an emotion (love, hate, angst, humour...etc) that grips me first then it is one or two lines of a verse that seem to jump out onto the page from my pen that starts the process of writing a poem.

Let's take a look at your poem...

I love these lines. I added a comma at the end at the first line as I think a short break here makes the two lines read better.

What is time, when words ring hollow,
smashed against a heart of stone.

The first two lines of poem are little confusing.

I won't take your time, but follow
back into my past alone.

It sounds like you don't want to be with this person but then you ask him to go with you into your past. I think it is the word "follow" that creates this confusion.

It sounds to me as though you want to return to your past leaving him behind....then the word "time" in the third line would refer to "time spent with this person".

Think about those two lines a bit...especially the word "follow"

I can feel the haven rockin'
and the ocean brawling through.

Do you mean "haven" or "heaven"? I think you mean "heaven" but I think it should be "heavens". We are not talking about "Heaven" in the Christian biblical sense...if you do mean this then there is no "the" used before the word. Rather you mean the sky/universe above us- the heavens.

I don't see the use of the word "through".

You use the word rockin' which is fine. However, rockin' is usually used to show good times...Rock 'n Roll...this place is rockin'!! (meaning there is a great party going on here). This does not fit the mood of your poem.

I think "rocking" would be a better choice and would be in parallel with "brawling". If you still feel "rockin'" is what you want to use then I think you should change "brawling" to brawlin' to stay parallel

When the rage is set, it's over
and I'm drowning
in you...

Nice ending. I like it. It shows that though you have limits in his behaviour and cannot continue the relationship...you are still have feelings for him. That is my interpretation of this section.

It is a fine line between love and hate, isn't it? The opposite of love is not hate.....you still have feelings for the person when you hate them. Rather it is indifference that is the opposite of love. When you could not care less about the other person...then you know you no longer love them.

Think about my suggestions and let us see a rewrite.

 

[bianca]

Thank you very much.

Yes, I meant 'haven', not 'heaven' -- haven is a place of refuge, a sanctuary, a quiet harbour - as opposed to or close by a raging ocean. I don't like the word heaven here, because there is no earth to match - just the ocean.

I may be wrong, but I don't quite agree on the inferred meaning of the verb 'rockin'', and I'm surprised it can allow for such an optimistic interpretation as you suggested, since the context itself is steeped in melancholy. But it is the reader, not the author, who gives meaning to a piece of writing, isn't it? I meant 'rocking' as 'swaying violently' - rocking my freedom or sanctuary. But I agree with 'brawlin' instead of 'brawling'.

I thank you once again for taking your time.
You're good!

What about this one? ...if you have time, that is..
Does it sound OK in the ears of a native speaker of English?

Ode to Darkness

I cannot describe the beauty of a morning dim and grey
For my words are pale and smudgy from the ashes of dismay,
But I can allow my muses wash away the Heavens bright
And instill a speck of glory in the labour of the Light.

But, alas, my muses quiver with the ripples of my eyes...
I can't stand this bright Illusion in the shatters of the skies
So I'm leaving back to Darkness, footsteps leading me astray,
To redeem my soul, so pregnant with the sins of
yesterday.

Bianca

 

[Lynxear]

Thank you very much.

Yes, I meant 'haven', not 'heaven' -- haven is a place of refuge, a sanctuary, a quiet harbour - as opposed to or close by a raging ocean. I don't like the word heaven here, because there is no earth to match - just the ocean.

No, there is no earth to match the heavens (note: I did not suggest "heaven" in biblical sense) but rather "the sky and universe" above. So you would have the seas below and the sky above in this verse.

If you want to use "haven" then I would assume it was your relationship with this person that was the haven...it was safe at one time but not now.

In this case I would suggest changing "the haven" to "our haven". Then you make it easier for the reader to understand what the haven refers to.

I may be wrong, but I don't quite agree on the inferred meaning of the verb 'rockin'', and I'm surprised it can allow for such an optimistic interpretation as you suggested, since the context itself is steeped in melancholy. But it is the reader, not the author, who gives meaning to a piece of writing, isn't it? I meant 'rocking' as 'swaying violently' - rocking my freedom or sanctuary. But I agree with 'brawlin' instead of 'brawling'.

Well, that is why I suggested changing it to "rocking" as yes, rockin' does not fit the mood of the poem, in my opinion. However, it is your choice and I am glad you chose to change brawling.

I thank you once again for taking your time.
You're good! you are welcome

What about this one? ...if you have time, that is..
Does it sound OK in the ears of a native speaker of English?

Ode to Darkness

I cannot describe the beauty of a morning dim and grey
For my words are pale and smudgy from the ashes of dismay,
But I can allow my muses wash away the Heavens bright
And instill a speck of glory in the labour of the Light.

But, alas, my muses quiver with the ripples of my eyes...
I can't stand this bright Illusion in the shatters of the skies
So I'm leaving back to Darkness, footsteps leading me astray,
To redeem my soul, so pregnant with the sins of
yesterday.

Bianca

It sounds quite good for the most part...

though this phrase "in the shatters of the skies" means nothing to me.

This line is confusing " So I'm leaving back to darkness," I don't understand if you are leaving darkness or going back to it? the word "back" is the problem here. If you are going back to darkness...I don't see how this is redeeming (later on in the verse)

I think these lines can be improved too...
"I can allow my muses to wash
away the heavens bright".
A muse is a source of inspiration, usually a poetic one. It does not seem to fit here.

I would also change the structure a bit though

I cannot describe the beauty
of a morning dim and grey,
For my words are pale and smudgy
from the ashes of dismay.
I can allow my muses to wash
away the heavens bright
And instill a speck of glory
in the labour of the Light.

But, alas, my muses quiver
with the ripples of my eyes.
I can't stand this bright illusion
in the shatters of the skies.
So I'm leaving back to darkness,
footsteps leading me astray,
To redeem my soul, so pregnant
with the sins of yesterday.

I like the rhythm of the poem. There are a few awkward lines but by and large the words flow well. As can be seen above I have suggested some small changes in capitalization and punctuation.

I hope this helps

 

[bianca]

No, there is no earth to match the heavens (note: I did not suggest "heaven" in biblical sense) but rather "the sky and universe" above. So you would have the seas below and the sky above in this verse.

If you want to use "haven" then I would assume it was your relationship with this person that was the haven...it was safe at one time but not now.

In this case I would suggest changing "the haven" to "our haven". Then you make it easier for the reader to understand what the haven refers to.



Well, that is why I suggested changing it to "rocking" as yes, rockin' does not fit the mood of the poem, in my opinion. However, it is your choice and I am glad you chose to change brawling.



It sounds quite good for the most part...

though this phrase "in the shatters of the skies" means nothing to me.

This line is confusing " So I'm leaving back to darkness," I don't understand if you are leaving darkness or going back to it? the word "back" is the problem here. If you are going back to darkness...I don't see how this is redeeming (later on in the verse)

I think these lines can be improved too...
"I can allow my muses to wash
away the heavens bright".
A muse is a source of inspiration, usually a poetic one. It does not seem to fit here.]

________________________


Hi

Thank you again.

A poem doesn't have to be written grammatically correct. The absence of 'to' in 'to wash' is deliberate - it makes for a better flow and rhythm, and the meaning is not altered. I must say I cannot quite follow you when you suggest that the word 'muse' as a source of inspiration does not fit here - could you elaborate on this, please? The muse - if you can dive into the poem - is creativity's alter ego, it is art that 'washes away the (murky) heavens bright'. Madness - darkness, night - is the absolute break with the work of art. Writing, painting, creating, are those 'specks of glory' when everything seems dark.


This is what I wanted my message to be. A poem can be read in different ways...but it also can be easily mis-read or misunderstood. I once had my students analyse "The Road Not Taken" and I was...taken aback to see how this peom could be interpreted. Some of them were really shallow, childish. I also read that Robert Frost himself could not pinpoint what exactly he meant with the poem - but this is what gives it a mystical aura - its being a well of meanings. Poetical allegories, metaphors are Picasso paintings in the shape of language. The poem emerges from hidden places and surprises the author himself. It is the truth about the author - and comes out as images, tropes, metaphors, hardly in neat, clear-cut grammatical constructions. That's what i think.

 

[Lynxear]

No, there is no earth to match the heavens (note: I did not suggest "heaven" in biblical sense) but rather "the sky and universe" above. So you would have the seas below and the sky above in this verse.

If you want to use "haven" then I would assume it was your relationship with this person that was the haven...it was safe at one time but not now.

In this case I would suggest changing "the haven" to "our haven". Then you make it easier for the reader to understand what the haven refers to.



Well, that is why I suggested changing it to "rocking" as yes, rockin' does not fit the mood of the poem, in my opinion. However, it is your choice and I am glad you chose to change brawling.

You quoted this with no comment. I don't understand why this is in the message.

It sounds quite good for the most part...

though this phrase "in the shatters of the skies" means nothing to me.

This line is confusing " So I'm leaving back to darkness," I don't understand if you are leaving darkness or going back to it? the word "back" is the problem here. If you are going back to darkness...I don't see how this is redeeming (later on in the verse)

I think these lines can be improved too...
"I can allow my muses to wash
away the heavens bright".
A muse is a source of inspiration, usually a poetic one. It does not seem to fit here.]

________________________

Hi

Thank you again.

A poem doesn't have to be written grammatically correct. The absence of 'to' in 'to wash' is deliberate - it makes for a better flow and rhythm, and the meaning is not altered. I must say I cannot quite follow you when you suggest that the word 'muse' as a source of inspiration does not fit here - could you elaborate on this, please? The muse - if you can dive into the poem - is creativity's alter ego, it is art that 'washes away the (murky) heavens bright'. Madness - darkness, night - is the absolute break with the work of art. Writing, painting, creating, are those 'specks of glory' when everything seems dark.

When you add the word "murky" you change the use of "bright". Without it, "bright" describes the heavens...before washing. It sounds to me like you are washing away the bright heavens.

I agree flow in a line is important, at a sacrifice to grammar. But grammar should not be sacrificed when it impairs the meaning of the line.

I would add the word "murky" to clarify what is being washed away.

How about this?

"I let my muses wash away
make the murky heavens bright".

I cannot describe the beauty (8 syllables)
of a morning dim and grey, (7 syllables)
For my words are pale and smudgy (8 syllables)
from the ashes of dismay. (7 syllables)
I let my muses wash away, (8 syllables)
make the murky heavens bright, (7 syllables)
And instill a speck of glory (8 syllables)
in the labour of the Light. (7 syllables)

This is what I wanted my message to be. A poem can be read in different ways...but it also can be easily mis-read or misunderstood. I once had my students analyse "The Road Not Taken" and I was...taken aback to see how this peom could be interpreted. Some of them were really shallow, childish. I also read that Robert Frost himself could not pinpoint what exactly he meant with the poem - but this is what gives it a mystical aura - its being a well of meanings. Poetical allegories, metaphors are Picasso paintings in the shape of language. The poem emerges from hidden places and surprises the author himself. It is the truth about the author - and comes out as images, tropes, metaphors, hardly in neat, clear-cut grammatical constructions. That's what i think.

...

I do not disagree....the final say belongs to the poet.

Many poets write for themselves, in my opinion. Personally I don't like obscure metaphor that is only known to the author.

My observations are simply to point out areas where I see could perhaps be improved. It is nothing personal.

My poetry that has been criticized as being too descriptive by poets, has been praised by readers for the same reason. Even then their interpretations surprise me at times.

I write for myself first and those readers second. I don't write to please critics, though I do appreciate their comments.

I still don't understand "in the shatters of the skies", as well as other areas I commented on.

The purpose of this thread is to tinker with wording...But if it is fine with you then that is all that matters....

 

[bianca]

I don't have much time to reply now, but I can only say that I was in a hurry to post the message and I omitted deleting the quotes. However, you saw the line where my message started - didn't you?

I agree on one thing: when incorrect grammar affects the meaning it is not ok. My question is: how does the absence of 'to' affect the meaning in 'to wash away...' versus 'wash away' the heavens bright. Also, 'wash away the heavens bright' means '...so that they will become bright'. This inversion is self-explanatory: usually the adjective stands before the noun, but here it doesn't: these absent words are simply implied.

When writing poetry, there isn't a specific audience you write to, like in writing an essay. I never bear in mind rules of writing so that the reader shall understand what I mean - I do follow some rules, as regards to rhythm and rhyme, but the content, grammar and so on speak their own language and it is done with a purpose. Some will understand, some won't - just like with fiction. Some like it, some don't. The important thing is that I reach a number of readers for whom this poem will make a difference.

 

[Lynxear]

I don't have much time to reply now, but I can only say that I was in a hurry to post the message and I omitted deleting the quotes. However, you saw the line where my message started - didn't you?

I agree on one thing: when incorrect grammar affects the meaning it is not ok. My question is: how does the absence of 'to' affect the meaning in 'to wash away...' versus 'wash away' the heavens bright. Also, 'wash away the heavens bright' means '...so that they will become bright'. This inversion is self-explanatory: usually the adjective stands before the noun, but here it doesn't: these absent words are simply implied.

When writing poetry, there isn't a specific audience you write to, like in writing an essay. I never bear in mind rules of writing so that the reader shall understand what I mean - I do follow some rules, as regards to rhythm and rhyme, but the content, grammar and so on speak their own language and it is done with a purpose. Some will understand, some won't - just like with fiction. Some like it, some don't. The important thing is that I reach a number of readers for whom this poem will make a difference.

I am not here to argue about your choice of words. You asked for my opinion on what I think needs improvement. I gave it.

You are not bound to accept my suggestions but I hope you will listen to them.

As I have repeatedly said....if the poem works for you...that is all that matters.

 

[bianca]

I am not here to argue about your choice of words. You asked for my opinion on what I think needs improvement. I gave it.

You are not bound to accept my suggestions but I hope you will listen to them.

As I have repeatedly said....if the poem works for you...that is all that matters.

...and..who's arguing?

 

[Lynxear]

...and..who's arguing?

Not me...

Where I found your wording confusing or in need of improvement, I have indicated it in my posts. If you don't accept the suggestions, it is fine with me.

 

[bianca]

Not me...

Where I found your wording confusing or in need of improvement, I have indicated it in my posts. If you don't accept the suggestions, it is fine with me.

You have a point there.
Thank you for your comments!