too much gas

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Tdol

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I heard that we got the word 'char' from a Portuguese Princess (Catherine I think) who introduced the afternoon tea habit to Britain.
 

Ibeke

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lucyarliwu said:
tdol said:
A lot of English vocab is similar because we got it from French. ;-)

Hi,Tdol!

You have given me an implication that I should turn to learn French firstly if I want to study English well since most English is from French!
;) hehe....what do you think of this?

No, that's not true, I think. The only reason why English has so much French loans in it, is historical (cf. invasion of Willem of Normandy :? ). It's not related to French, because French is a Romance language and English is a Germanic language. Other languages that belong to the Germanic family are Dutch, German, Danish,...

Other Romance languages are Italian, Spanish, Romanian...

greetz
 

Ibeke

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RonBee said:
lucyarliwu said:
tdol said:
A lot of English vocab is similar because we got it from French. ;-)

Hi,Tdol!

You have given me an implication that I should turn to learn French firstly if I want to study English well since most English is from French!
;) hehe....what do you think of this?

More than half of English vocabulary (so I have heard) is from French. However, the most frequently used words are still from Anglo-Saxon or Norse.

Note the similarities between modern German and English in these words:

English---- German
father ------ vater
mother---- mutter
brother ---- bruder
sister ----- schwester

(Note: the German v is pronounced the same as the English f.)

8)

I don't know if that's so surprising, I mean they do belong to the same language family?
 

Ibeke

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RonBee said:
From The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (by David Crystal): "When one language takes lexemes from another, the new items are usually called loan words or borrowings -- though neither term is really appropriate, as the receiving language does not give them back. English, perhaps more than any other language, is an insatiable borrower. Whereas the speakers of other languages take pains to exclude foreign words from their lexicons, English always seems to have welcomed them. Over 120 languages are on record as sources of its present-day vocabulary, and the locations of contact are found all over the world."

BTW, the word tea comes from China.

8)

... :? Do you really believe that? If you take a look all around the world, wouldn't you have to agree that in every language, English is infiltrating more and more...The only language I know to be very resistant to English borrowing is French, but doh...why am I not surprised... :wink:
But if you look at the Netherlands you will see them using a lot of English in their Dutch. And also Afrikaans takes a lot of English words.
 

Casiopea

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Ibeke said:
RonBee said:
From The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (by David Crystal): "When one language takes lexemes from another, the new items are usually called loan words or borrowings -- though neither term is really appropriate, as the receiving language does not give them back. English, perhaps more than any other language, is an insatiable borrower. Whereas the speakers of other languages take pains to exclude foreign words from their lexicons, English always seems to have welcomed them. Over 120 languages are on record as sources of its present-day vocabulary, and the locations of contact are found all over the world."

BTW, the word tea comes from China.

8)

... :? Do you really believe that? If you take a look all around the world, wouldn't you have to agree that in every language, English is infiltrating more and more...The only language I know to be very resistant to English borrowing is French, but doh...why am I not surprised... :wink:
But if you look at the Netherlands you will see them using a lot of English in their Dutch. And also Afrikaans takes a lot of English words.

Actually, :D , the point was this: English, perhaps more than any other language, is an insatiable borrower. :wink: That is, English borrows from many languages via contact: immigration; media; Business. :wink:
 

Ibeke

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Casiopea said:
Ibeke said:
RonBee said:
From The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (by David Crystal): "When one language takes lexemes from another, the new items are usually called loan words or borrowings -- though neither term is really appropriate, as the receiving language does not give them back. English, perhaps more than any other language, is an insatiable borrower. Whereas the speakers of other languages take pains to exclude foreign words from their lexicons, English always seems to have welcomed them. Over 120 languages are on record as sources of its present-day vocabulary, and the locations of contact are found all over the world."

BTW, the word tea comes from China.

8)

... :? Do you really believe that? If you take a look all around the world, wouldn't you have to agree that in every language, English is infiltrating more and more...The only language I know to be very resistant to English borrowing is French, but doh...why am I not surprised... :wink:
But if you look at the Netherlands you will see them using a lot of English in their Dutch. And also Afrikaans takes a lot of English words.

Actually, :D , the point was this: English, perhaps more than any other language, is an insatiable borrower. :wink: That is, English borrows from many languages via contact: immigration; media; Business. :wink:

Well, actually :wink: I don't agree that English could "perhaps" be a greater borrower than any other language. What I might agree with is that English borrows from various languages and that the variety in languages it borrows from is great.

Btw this sentence was really stated: " Whereas the speakers of other languages take pains to exclude foreign words from their lexicons"
...and that is still very untrue to me.
 

Casiopea

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Ibeke said:
What I might agree with is that English borrows from various languages and that the variety in languages it borrows from is great.

I agree. :D

Ibeke said:
this sentence was really stated: " Whereas the speakers of other languages take pains to exclude foreign words from their lexicons" ...and that is still very untrue to me.

The only language I know to be very resistant to English borrowing is French", right?

So you're saying it's an overstatement, right? Hmm. But, then again, have you looked to see if there are other languages aside from French that do indeed 'take pains to exlude foreign words from their lexicons'? :wink:
 

Tdol

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The Academie Francaise tries, but they are fighting a losing battle.;-)
 

Ibeke

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Casiopea said:
Ibeke said:
What I might agree with is that English borrows from various languages and that the variety in languages it borrows from is great.

I agree. :D

Ibeke said:
this sentence was really stated: " Whereas the speakers of other languages take pains to exclude foreign words from their lexicons" ...and that is still very untrue to me.

The only language I know to be very resistant to English borrowing is French", right?

So you're saying it's an overstatement, right? Hmm. But, then again, have you looked to see if there are other languages aside from French that do indeed 'take pains to exlude foreign words from their lexicons'? :wink:

Well, I watch a lot of German television and it surprises me how they always manage to find their own words for modern technologies, for example "Fernsehe" for tv. I mean: in Belgium it's televisie and in the Netherlands as well, but in Germany it's Fernsehe. I'm saying this because Germany differs little- at least in my eyes- from Dutch and they could have easily made it: Televisione...I don't think that would have constituted a problem for pronunciation whatsoever. But ok, I'm certainly not encouraging extensive borrowing. In the Netherlands very often English words are inserted in speech as well as words from the former colony Surinam (or Dutch Guiana). In Afrikaans there has been plenty of borrowing from various sources: English, Dutch, Malay, Portuguese, Zulu, Xhosa, French, Arab,...Some languages have not been as influential as others. For example Arab and French. Most French loans in Afrikaans are restricted to names and most Arab loans have religious context: such as "een kaffer" from the Arab "kafir", a non-believer.

In Moroccan most of the borrowing is from French and also from Spanish. Riffiyan Berber (spoken in the north of Morocco) has borrowed so extensively from Spanish, that during my Spanish classes I knew practically all of the vocabulary already.

But I would say French together with Flemish (Belgium) and German are still somewhat resistant to borrowing. As Flemish and Netherland Dutch are practically the same (except for pronunciation) they can easily be compared to detect loan words and as you come to do this, you will come to the same conclusion as I did: Netherland Dutch is less hesitant in loaning words especially from English.

Greetz :wink:

PS:...and these are only the lexical loans we're talking about.
 

bmo

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Casiopea said:
lucyarliwu said:
I couldn't help wondering when you mentioned the word 'tea' is from China, ya, and just as Tdol said it's 'cha' in chinese pronuciation, but how could it turn into 'tea' which is obviously different from 'cha', so as the 'cash', 'pidgin'??? :? :?: Lucy in curiosity

From the Chinese, Amoy dialect t'e:
Dutch tee, chief importers (1610)
French the
Spanish te
German tee
English tea (1644)

From the Chinese, Mandarin dialect ch'a
Russian cha
Persian cha
Greek tsai
Turkish say

From French caisse
English cash

From the Chinese pronunciation of business.
English pidgin

www.etymonline.com

:D

Tea exported from the sea port of Amoy (in Fujian province north of Canton) through Malay and to the Netherland follows the Amoy (Taiwanese) sound of te. (Fujian has been a tea producing area.)

Tea went from the North through the land route -silk road- to Central Asia (Iran, Trukey) are called cha, following the Mandarin (northern Chinese) sound of cha. (Mandarin is the Beijing dialect.)

Ancient Chinese are preserved better in southern dialects, like Amoy and Fujianese (Taiwanese), and in Chinese loan words in Japanese, Vietnamese and Korean. Southern Chinese took ancient Chinese to the South when they migrated from the North, escaping from northern "barbarians" and the Mongols. (Northen Chinese are influenced more by other languages.)
 

Ibeke

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bmo said:
Casiopea said:
lucyarliwu said:
I couldn't help wondering when you mentioned the word 'tea' is from China, ya, and just as Tdol said it's 'cha' in chinese pronuciation, but how could it turn into 'tea' which is obviously different from 'cha', so as the 'cash', 'pidgin'??? :? :?: Lucy in curiosity

From the Chinese, Amoy dialect t'e:
Dutch tee, chief importers (1610)
French the
Spanish te
German tee
English tea (1644)

From the Chinese, Mandarin dialect ch'a
Russian cha
Persian cha
Greek tsai
Turkish say

From French caisse
English cash

From the Chinese pronunciation of business.
English pidgin

www.etymonline.com

:D

Tea exported from the sea port of Amoy (in Fujian province north of Canton) through Malay and to the Netherland follows the Amoy (Taiwanese) sound of te. (Fujian has been a tea producing area.)

Tea went from the North through the land route -silk road- to Central Asia (Iran, Trukey) are called cha, following the Mandarin (northern Chinese) sound of cha. (Mandarin is the Beijing dialect.)

Ancient Chinese are preserved better in southern dialects, like Amoy and Fujianese (Taiwanese), and in Chinese loan words in Japanese, Vietnamese and Korean. Southern Chinese took ancient Chinese to the South when they migrated from the North, escaping from northern "barbarians" and the Mongols. (Northen Chinese are influenced more by other languages.)

So tea is more ancient than cha.

Moroccan: atay
 

bmo

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Cas,

I am impressed with your knowledege of the origin of tea and cha. You have a very broad understanding of cultures.

BMO
 

Casiopea

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bmo said:
Cas,

I am impressed with your knowledege of the origin of tea and cha. You have a very broad understanding of cultures.

BMO

Thank you. :D Mind you, I found it at: www.etymonline.com :wink: The source is located at the bottom of the post.
 

Latoof

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Jun 20, 2004
tdol said:
IN England we also call tea 'char', which is much closer to the Chinese. ;-)

I know it is such a long time to make a reply on this topic, however I want to say that we say "chai" in local Imarati accent which we derived from Hindi :lol: .

Tea, Char, Cha, or Chai it tastes wonderful :D
 

Casiopea

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Latoof said:
tdol said:
IN England we also call tea 'char', which is much closer to the Chinese. ;-)

I know it is such a long time to make a reply on this topic, however I want to say that we say "chai" in local Imarati accent which we derived from Hindi :lol: .

Tea, Char, Cha, or Chai it tastes wonderful :D

Tea for Latoof. :D
 

ram

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Nov 27, 2004
It is interesting to see experts dissect "simple everyday" words like piano and tea. Here, we call it TSA. Most Chinese in our place came from AMOY. Local folks consider it medicinal and only drank when one has (I hope nobody is eating, please excuse me) diarrhea. Most of us, if not soda or water, coffee drinkers (US influence? most probably). In music, we were taught that piano means softly, pianissimo means most softly.
RAM
 

Suzanne55

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English Teacher
Piano in Italian is used to indicate both 'slow' and 'quiet'. It can be used to ask someone to slow down or to keep their voice down.
 
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