actually, i was already shocked by your conversation.
eric2004, you are the most shameless thing i have ever seen, i am so glad that you will not a Chinese anymore. " you are about to(just back to your topic) to have the hornor to be an american or british or whatever, wish you have that hornor soon, here my congratulations in advance"
all others, if you really wanna discover the true china without any prejudice, but not gossip with a shameless 2 time looser, please come to china and have a tour by yourself, the truth only can be discovered by your own eyes, or i suggest that you may ask your friends whom have been to china and you always trust to tell you something about china, as that poor clown is concerned, only can tell you funny joke.
well, i mean no offense, i just come here to learn english, i am not interested in politics at all. so, please correct my enlglish mistakes if there is any, claude will appreciate that very much.
good luck, buddis, have a nice christmas!
I, a pure Chinese, NOT 'shit youth' or nazi as eric has mentioned in his above posts, I, a pure Chinese, NOT an anti-america or anti-western or anti-whatever else, on the contrary, I am interested your culture, I am fond of your wonderful hollywood movies (French who always think hollywood movies are not cultured or cultivated may take exception to this, and they always insist on refusing speak English :wink: ), and I also respect your advanced science and tech achievement.
I am learning your language now, I think Both Chinese and English are the most great language, both the culture or philosophy system of Western and China are the most great as well, but, WHY there are always so much prejudice against each other? the modern technology and science enable us to overcome the obstacles the restriction of geography limitation, but it can not open our mind, there are still some obstacles we have not overcome yet, I think we, both Western and Asian, must open our MIND while we are openning our eyes.
Language is a wonderful bridge to reach each other's history, culture and philosophy, Communication is a good key to eliminate misunderstanding and hatred.
Thanks Internet, it makes all this more easier. though just as the coin has two sides, Internet is still a good tool to spread rumors.
Thanks all English Teachers here, you guid us through the bridge and give us the keys, that is the first step to access our free communication, teacher is really an honorable job. Thanks for whatever you have done to us.
Well, I am too pompous and I'v blah,blahed too much, I must stop at here. :wink:
I've just read this thread. Discussion on politics or social issues can contribute to understanding between people if we start from the position that we don't know enough about some issues, especially concerning another person's country, culture or politics; if it is to gain more understanding by being reasonable and keeping an open mind; and while holding to our own views, we stand ready to see the other person's point of view. We may at least end up agreeing to disagree.
My view is that eric appears to look at mainly one side of things. For example, the comment about Arabs does not help to reach out to reasonable people (and it's not fair). The blanket condemnation of people in China as "shit youth" and as "insane citizens and country" are attitudes that lead to the extreme acts that some people commit (I'm not talking about eric here).
As a Chinese, I believe that my views here represent the vast majority of Chinese. First, the Chinese people want the understanding and friendship of other people who are not Chinese. They hold no inherent animosity towards anyone (excepting extremists, which all countries have). Second, they know from their daily lives the good and the bad about their own country. Third, they do not wish for other people to be their "saviours" however well-intentioned.
China is a country with a recorded history of 5,000 years. Its people have experienced all manner of hardships, going through longer periods of feudal and tyrannical rule than most other peoples. They do want a good life, greater freedom of choice, and personal rights, and know that oppression can be from within and from outside of their country.
I have been fortunate to have had an education which included the history and geography of all of the Western world, but unfortunately not much about Africa or Latin American. It has given me an understanding of other cultures to a certain degree. Most of all, it helps me to try to be open-minded.
Many in the West, for example, do not know the history of China. Many do not see it and its people in the total context of its history and development, as a process which their own countries have undergone, and do not put this in comparison. But many Europeans (but unfortunately not enough Americans!) do, because they have gone through parallel periods in their history and development into more democratic societies. A process that affected the lives of ordinary people to the extreme, that involved civil, religious, national and continental wars (Cromwell, Luther, the Spanish Inquisition, to name just a few). Americans too had their war of independence and the Civil War that held their country together.
In short, the Chinese people had suffered even more and worse before Communist rule (the rich ravaged the poor, fathers had to sell two or three year old daughters to appease or repay rampaging landlords, people ate grass and the barks of trees when natural or man-made disasters struck). There are few things in life and in a people's history and growth that is without cost. Is it better now that China has undergone economic reform? Some would definitely agree because they have a better material life, but a huge number (especially the less able and fortunate) have lost the bare minimum for survival and material stability (however threadbare that existence), etc that existed for a while as a trade-off between overall social stability and livelihood, and authoritarian rule. Will poverty, injustice and all the ills go away if China is a Western democracy? Just think of India as a close example.
Are the vast majority of "democratic" countries like India better off? Is Taiwan free of corruption? What is China today is the start of a long process that the Chinese people must undergo towards both greater material and social freedom. Does "democracy" (more than ballot-box democracy) guarantee material prosperity, justice and a corruption-free society like a wishing wand. Where IS and where WAS democracy in, say, Taiwan, or Hong Kong under British rule? Did British Hong Kong have elections?
True friends of China will help China moderate the development of this process. In the ruling communist government, there are true patriots as well as the most rampacious beasts in sheep's clothing. As a large country, China has fought the fewest aggressive wars of conquest in its long history. Even smaller nations (Jenghis Khan, for example, and Japan in particular towards Korea and China) had larger ambitions and long repeated cruel attempts at coveting and subjugating other nations. Perhaps, this is because China is large enough as it is. As a nation, the Chinese have not proved to be an aggressive and conquest-seeking power.
The Amercians are fortunate to have had a fresh start as a nation. Its founding fathers had the lessons of history on their side. America was built by people who had tasted tyranny, material deprivation, etc but they had a new land and society to build from. Nevertheless, they couldn't completely escape the injustices that many of the strong "naturally" wreak on the weak. But even the civil rights struggle and the bitter Civil War cannot be compared to the tribulations of other societies (that is not meant to belittle these noble struggles). Throughout its short history, America did not have others trying to exploit their internal process of change and struggle, ill or well-intentioned, in the name of democracy, liberation or whatever. It had never been encircled, bullied, threatened, humiliated or occupied by other nations. The Cold War was an ideological struggle following the destruction wreaked by WWII and the rise of communism as a result of extreme tyranny, oppression and Czarist rule for centuries in Russia.
No large nation had ever been bullied as China had been at its weakest. Neither the Americans, the British and other Western nations had ever suffered colonisation, where foreigners ruled as masters in your own land. Scotland struggled against English tyranny during feudal times, and under tyrants like Edward the Long Shank. That, for example, was too long ago for most Western people to have the faintest idea of what it meant to face in your own land a sign that says "No Chinese or dogs are allowed (into this park)".
But today any American, German, Briton, French, Dutch and people from the host of nations which had in the past inflicted aggression upon China and ordinary Chinese, who by accident or choice have visited China can testify to the warmth and welcome that the ordinary Chinese (excluding exceptions by demented individuals) genuinely extend to these guests to their country. And that's not because they have forgotten about this history (which was not that long ago). That's because the Chinese do not bear such meaningless grudges. It's because also that even the illiterate Chinese, because of our own long history and experience, understand that those were events that were born of the times and societies then in Europe. How much have European societies changed? Perhaps we can only see in the number of Western people who are true friends of the Chinese people. And such Western people are held in appreciation by all civilized people.
China and the Chinese people have both friends and intractable enemies among Americans. Some people believe that its wishful to think that China (or some other big or powerful nation in the future) and America, as big nations, can ever "live on the same street". They believe in strength and power as the only arbiter of differences. They do not look at history in context and try to understand the times, motivation and types of socities and leaders behind the most aggressive and destructive wars waged throughout human existence.
True friends of the Chinese people will not exploit the Taiwan issue. Enemies and traitors (which all countries have) hope for eventual war, and will stoke the fires. What have the Taiwan people to fear? The Chinese in China are testimony to that. The vast majority go about their lives in peace, trying to make a living. Crime, corruption and injustice occur, practised by ruthless officials and private individuals. Which country is free of this? The battles against these ills must be fought within China as a nation, just as Britain and America evolved their democracies. China will take a longer time and friends will hope at as little heart wrenching cost (cultural revolution, etc and all the tribulations of the past 5,000 years) to the Chinese people as is destined for the Chinese people. Chinese who love their motherland for all its good and bad can hold high their heads, just as we admire and respect others who love their nation. Such Chinese do honour to themselves and their own identity, their families, their ancestors, their nation and their true friends from other countries.
I am honoured to meet Claude and Farmer on this forum, and all our Western friends who treat us with goodwill and friendship.