Venn Diagram of English Verb patterns

[Andy]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. It looks pretty good, though.

I'm trying to create a Venn diagram of the English verb pattern which I've made into a website.

I'm currently trying to find examples of verbs that form the pattern:

Verb+question word+to+infinitive
Verb+object+question word+subject+verb

If anyone knows of any examples, I'd love to know.


I'm also working on the modals section, if anyone is interested in modal verbs, let me know.

Thanks.
You can see my website at:

http://www.geocities.com/endipatterson/Catenative.html
The diagram is clickable and links to different pages.


Andy.

 

[Tdol]

Hi, Andy, this used to be on a different URL, didn't it? I had already added it to our links page (https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality/), so I have updated the details. If you would like to write an intro,I'll add that,too.;-)

 

[Andy]

Hi, Andy, this used to be on a different URL, didn't it? I had already added it to our links page (https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality/), so I have updated the details. If you would like to write an intro,I'll add that,too.;-)

Thanks for getting back to me, Tdol.

This diagram has been on different URL's - when I first set up the website, my programming skills were not that good. I set up a second website while leaving the original while I transferred the commentary into links, which was originally on the top, bottom and sides of the diagram.

Actually, I'm not sure if I should change the URL again. The diagram started as just gerunds and infinitives, then became the catenatives. For most of the diagrams existence it has been titled, "Venn Diagram of the English Catenatives." I changed the title to "Venn Diagram of English Verb Patterns," because it more acurately describes the diagram as it has developed.

As far as I know, however, you have not linked to the diagram before. I tried to link to https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality, but it was a dead link. The post that you replied to was my first link to the forum, but I would be happy for you to do so, although many of the links are still under construction. Any help particularly with the sections that I mentioned before would be appreciated.

As for the introduction, I have in fact provided an overview of the diagram which you can read by clicking the yin yang symbol. I appreciate, though, that I have not indicated this clearly.

 

[Red5]

I tried to link to https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality, but it was a dead link.

The correct link is: https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality/

;-)

PS - Welcome to UsingEnglish! :hi:

 

[Andy]

I tried to link to https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality, but it was a dead link.

The correct link is: https://www.usingenglish.com/links/Language_Articles/Linguistics/Modality/

;-)

PS - Welcome to UsingEnglish! :hi:

Thanks for the link. Well I can't remember posting my diagram here, perhaps it got here by another route.

It definitely covers more than just the catenatives now, though. Would you mind changing the name to, "Venn diagram of English verb patterns"?

I've added an introduction because you wanted one.

Thanks.

 

[Tdol]

Thanks- it actually was sent to me by a teacher who passes on links he finds for inclusion. ;-)

 

[Andy]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Now I have a question about usage. I'd like to know which of the following sentences you find acceptable, and which you don't. There may be different usage in different English speaking countries, so please include your nationality.

1. a) He convinced me he was sincere.
b) He convinced me that he was sincere.

2 a) He persuaded me he was taking the right course of action.
b) He persuaded me that he was taking the right course of action.

3 a) He reminded me I had to post the letter.
b) He reminded me that I had to post the letter.

4 a) He told me he had to go.
b) He told me that he had to go.

5 a) He warned me the roads were dangerous.
b) He warned me that the roads were dangerous.

6 a) He realised it was already too late.
b) He realised that it was already too late.

7 a) He said he was sorry.
b) He said that he was sorry.

8 a) He suspected John was a thief.
b) He suspected that John was a thief.

9 a) He promised he wouldn’t be long.
b) He promised that he wouldn’t be long.

10 a) He promised us he wouldn’t be long.
b) He promised us that he wouldn’t be long.

11 a) He complained the soup was cold.
b) He complained that the soup was cold.

12 a) He explained the waiter had a lot of tables to serve.
b) He explained that the waiter had a lot of tables to serve.

13 a) He suggested the restaurant should employ more waiters.
b) He suggested that the restaurant should employ more waiters.

14 a) He wrote he wasn’t satisfied with the service.
b) He wrote that he wasn’t satisfied with the service.

 

[Tdol]

I'd say all, though number 14 is not one I'd use. ;-)

 

[Andy]

Thanks Tdol,

So you think ALL of them are acceptable. You said 14 was not something that you would say, is that a) or b), or are you just saying that you don't like to write letters of complaint? This implies that "that" can always be dropped in your ideolect. I deliberately included some examples in which "that" is definitely compulsory in British English. The reason for posting this is to determine where "that" can be dropped and where it's compulsory.

 

[Tdol]

Sorry; I would use 'that' in 14. Dropping it sounds a bit American, but I could be wrong. ;-)

 

[Andy]

Sorry; I would use 'that' in 14. Dropping it sounds a bit American, but I could be wrong. ;-)

Bingo, "write" is one of the control verbs. a) is wrong, b) is right. I have it on good authority that "that" cannot be dropped there in British English. (but I also want to know about West Atlantic usage.)

I am fairly sure about three of the others, but there are ten others that, I'm not sure about.

It is interesting that you only pick "write" maybe there is a continuum of decreasing acceptability of dropping "that"

 

[Francois]

I'm not a native speaker, but I'll have a go for the fun of it:
I would use 'that' with these ones:

5 a) He warned me the roads were dangerous.
8 a) He suspected John was a thief.
9 a) He promised he wouldn’t be long.
11 a) He complained the soup was cold.
12 a) He explained the waiter had a lot of tables to serve.
13 a) He suggested the restaurant should employ more waiters.
14 a) He wrote he wasn’t satisfied with the service.

FRC

 

[Andy]

I'm not a native speaker, but I'll have a go for the fun of it:
I would use 'that' with these ones:

5 a) He warned me the roads were dangerous.
8 a) He suspected John was a thief.
9 a) He promised he wouldn’t be long.
11 a) He complained the soup was cold.
12 a) He explained the waiter had a lot of tables to serve.
13 a) He suggested the restaurant should employ more waiters.
14 a) He wrote he wasn’t satisfied with the service.

FRC

Thanks Francois,

I just want to make sure that I understand you right.
The sentences marked a) don't have "that" sentences maked b) have "that".
You said, "I would use "that" with these ones," then went on to write a list where every example was one of the a) sentences.

Do you mean 5b, 8b, 9b, 11, 12b, 13b and 14b are correct, and
5a, 8a , 9a 11a 12a 13a and 14a are incorrect?

Have you checked out the main diagram by the way?
http://www.geocities.com/endipatterson/Catenative.html

 

[Francois]

That's because I'm lazy and just copied&pasted your sentences and kept the ones that looked strange to me without 'that'.
I've just taken a look at your link -- I've probably jumped in something that is above my head

FRC

 

[Andy]

Not at all Francois, each section is no more complicated than the question that I just asked. Trouble is there are 31 sections.

 

[Francois]

Yes, I've looked into it more carefully, and it can certainly come in useful. Maybe you could add a bit more examples.
Apparently I got the mandory 'that' right, that's not so bad for me

FRC

 

[Andy]

Yes, I've looked into it more carefully, and it can certainly come in useful. Maybe you could add a bit more examples.
Apparently I got the mandory 'that' right, that's not so bad for me

FRC

Francois,

If by more examples you mean more verbs, I am attempting to list as many as I can. In fact, I want to list every single verb that can be followed by another.

If you mean examples of the actual verbs in use, these are all shown in the links which you can go to by clicking the relevant section on the diagram. Sorry, but the diagram would be too unwieldy if I gave examples on the diagram itself.

 

[Francois]

Yes, I meant more examples when you follow the links (not on the diagram).

FRC

 

[Andy]

I'll see what I can do, Francois. Do you have anything specific in mind? I'm always ready to use any good ideas. :idea: At the moment it isn't really for learners, but I'd like to add exercises, and things like that eventually. I think there will be two versions eventually, one for linguists and one for learners.