Victorian Nursery Rhyme

[jiho]

Hi all,
I am trying to understand a reference inside a text that points to a Victorian nursery rhyme, which I do not know.

Context:
England, 19th. one guy makes a blunder and a friend of his laughs at him.

The text says the following:
«the unsympathetic cackle came straight from Victorian nursery rhyme: "What do you say to standing on your head in the Gardens for one hour per diem for the next week?"»
(the blunderer works at Kew Gardens)

There is no further reference to this in the text so I thought it should be a well-known rhyme.
Does anybody know the rhyme?
What does it say?

Thank you

 

[Anglika]

I think the reference is to "You are Old, Father William" by Lewis Carroll, which is a nonsense poem, not a nursery rhyme.

You Are Old, Father William

 

[jiho]

I think the reference is to "You are Old, Father William" by Lewis Carroll, which is a nonsense poem, not a nursery rhyme.

You Are Old, Father William

It is quite likely, as it seems to me. Do you have any idea about the writting or publishing date of Carroll's poem?
The letter with my text was dated: "April 1859"

 

[Anglika]

That's too early for Carroll.

Could you possible give a bit more of the letter - I'm wondering if it is the unsympathetic cackle that comes from nursery rhyme, and the bit you have given as source is clearly not the full sentence.

 

[jiho]

You are right, the poem was first published in 1865.

The sentence I quoted in the first post is the full reference to the cackle in the book I am reading, and as I know the source (a letter) I went to read it and saw the date.

The original letter consists of hardly 8 lines and if you do not know what the conversation is about, i think it is quite difficult to understand:
Life and Letters of Thomas Henry ... - Google Book Search

Huxley laughs at Hooker because he has spoiled part of Darwin's manuscript of the Origin of Species

I hope the link works

 

[Anglika]

I've tracked the letter and the reference: ... as for the MSS. it is one
of those cases for which penances were originally devised.
What do you say to standing on your head in the garden for
one hour per diem for the next week?

So far as I can see, Huxley is joking with a very old and dear friend, who will appreciate the joke, and there is nothing to do with nursery rhymes in the context.

I can't quite see the relevance of the "unsympathetic cackle" in your first post. It seems a misinterpretation of Huxley's comment. He is being amused and sympathetic in my reading of the letter. His comic suggestion that Hooker does penance by standing on his head for an hour every day during the next week is really quite funny.

 

[jiho]

Maybe this is a way for the author to say that Huxley was being a bit hard on Hooker's guilty feeling.

One guess I made in the meantime:
- Was Carroll the real, original autor of the poem, or could it have been a popular one adapted and inserted in Carroll's book?

Huxley knew Carroll personally...

Well, I am making some other enquiries. I promise to post them if they produce anything.

Thank You so much for your kind help, Anglika

 

[Anglika]

Yes, Carroll was the author of the poem, which was a parody of a moralistic Southey poem.

You may well be right about the author's interpretation of the Darwin letter, but I think he/she does not fully understand the friendliness and humour of the suggestion. From Darwin's words, Hooker was probably both rueful and guilty about his actions, and Darwin is saying it is not really so important.

I will be interested in any other comments you get

 

[jiho]

Here is the conclusion

There is no actual rhyme.
The autor thinks the situation with Hooker standing on his head might well have appeared in a limerick or similar poem. Just «a rethorical flourish».

Thank You again.