What is SINCE implying?

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shun

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Oct 7, 2003
If John says "Ms JH has lived in Japan since 1987", shall I ask further where Ms JH is living now?
Or shall I suppose that Ms JH still lives in Japan, so I don't need to ask?


I am not an English native speaker, so I am not sure about this. Please give me some advice.

Thank you very much.

Shun
 

Casiopea

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shun said:
If John says "Ms JH has lived in Japan since 1987", shall I ask further where Ms JH is living now? Or shall I suppose that Ms JH still lives in Japan, so I don't need to ask?
there now vs. not here now
She has lived in Japan since 1987 means, (a) she still lives there now or (b) she no longer lives here now (i.e., in answer to an airport customs official's question, "How long has she lived in Japan?"--She's at the airport, leaving Japan for good, never to return again, "I've lived in Japan since 1987, but I no longer live here now."
 

shun

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Oct 7, 2003
Ex: John says: "Ms JH has lived in Japan since 1987."

Cas, according to your opinion, we use Present Perfect, we say specially the time Since, and yet we still cannot express the action whether finished or not; whether past or present? Is this the way we use Since, to express something we don't know about it now? :-o

So we have to ask about JH at present, and John will tell you in Simple Present, getting rid of the time adverbial:
"Yes, she still lives there now."
Or
"No, she no longer lives in Japan."

Is this what Since implying? John doesn't want you to know about her now, unless you ask him more?
 
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Neurotica

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Hi there,

In American English, when someone uses the word since, there is no point in asking whether things have changed or not...

Regards,

Neurotica
 

shun

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Neurotica said:
Hi there,

In American English, when someone uses the word since, there is no point in asking whether things have changed or not...

Regards,

Neurotica
But Cas said there are two meanings with Since:
Cas said:
She has lived in Japan since 1987 means, (a) she still lives there now or (b) she no longer lives here now
How do you know which one meaning is implied in Since, if you don't ask?:-?
 
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Neurotica

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shun said:
But Cas said there are two meanings with Since:
How do you know which one meaning is implied in Since, if you don't ask?:-?

If since was to have two meanings, then I suppose the sentence would have been followed with a 'but she now moved...'. This is when you have to ask... If it would have been 'since 1987 till 2000'. In this case, asking whether she moved or not sounds pretty obvious, but when 'since' is used stand alone, that would mean that she still is at her location.

Regards,

Neurotica.
 

shun

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Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Neurotica said:
If since was to have two meanings, then I suppose the sentence would have been followed with a 'but she now moved...'. This is when you have to ask...

Dear Neurotica,

What do you want to say, actually? If the context has also said “but she now moved to Macau”, shall I have to ask “Where does she live now”? I don’t think so.

The logical situation is, when the speaker or the writer doesn’t say “but she now moved...”, we then have to ask “Where does she live now?”

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Neurotica said:
If it would have been 'since 1987 till 2000'.....

I guess we usually say “from 1987 to 2000”.

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Neurotica said:
...but when 'since' is used stand alone, that would mean that she still is at her location.
But Cas explained that “She has lived in Japan since 1987” has two meanings (see above), which seems reasonable to me. But if we don’t ask more, how shall we know which one meaning is implied?

For another example, "She has visited Ocean Park for three times since it opened", if we don't ask further whether she still visits or not, how do we know that Since implies a finish or not?

 
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Neurotica

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Dear Shun,

Since would imply the finish unless stated otherwise. Now, just to play safe, it's better that you follow Casiopea's advice and ask. I don't think that anyone would notice english not being your mother language if you ask a question. They might only think that you're just a bit curious or you're trying to socialize. At least you won't be sayin 'Could you please help me to open that closed door?'

Regards,

Neurotica.

PS: - you're right about the 1987 to 2000. See, I got totally messed up while summarizing Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. That book is not recommended for any person suffering from hysteria, demence, schizophrenia, melancholia or suicidal tendencies. It knocks you out with the 'freaky' explanations on the law of probability and more to go...
 

shun

Member
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Oct 7, 2003
Perhaps Cas and I were wrong. But how do you analyze “She has visited Ocean Park for three times since it opened”? It looks like a finish to me, because she is not in the park when we say that.

However, “She has lived in HK since 1987” seems to be an unfinish only, if according to your idea.

Therefore, there is a contradiction in Since, do you agree?
 
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Neurotica

Guest
Shun,

Since you used 'since it opened', that gives it a finish, but 'since 1987' leaves it unfinish. I do agree to 'since' being contradictory...

Regards,

Neurotica.
 

shun

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Neurotica said:
Shun,

Since you used 'since it opened', that gives it a finish, but 'since 1987' leaves it unfinish. I do agree to 'since' being contradictory...

Regards,

Neurotica.
I am sorry you said that. You must be aware that Cas and I are talking about the other part of Since, the part we use Present Perfect.

If you insist, we may change the question for you like this:
“She has visited Ocean Park for three times since 1987.
It still looks like a finish to me, do you agree?



 
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