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Taka

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The question:

The street is wet ( ) it hasn't been raining.
1.while 2.since 3.because 4.even though


It should be #4, but I don't know exactly why #1 is not possible.

Does anybody know why?
 

blacknomi

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#1 doesn't make sense. I'll think of the reason later. I'm going to take a shower now. :)
 

twostep

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Taka said:
The question:

The street is wet ( ) it hasn't been raining.
1.while 2.since 3.because 4.even though


It should be #4, but I don't know exactly why #1 is not possible.

Does anybody know why?

4 is correct. It explains the contradiction. While explains the duration.
 

twostep

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blacknomi said:
#1 doesn't make sense. I'll think of the reason later. I'm going to take a shower now. :)

I have heard of think tanks but never of think showers. :wink:
 

blacknomi

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While it hasn't been raining, the street is indeed wet.>>

It'd sound better if the adverbial clause introducing by 'while' were fronted. But still, twostep is right, 'while' is usually a time marker. :wink:
 

Taka

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twostep said:
Taka said:
The question:

The street is wet ( ) it hasn't been raining.
1.while 2.since 3.because 4.even though


It should be #4, but I don't know exactly why #1 is not possible.

Does anybody know why?

4 is correct. It explains the contradiction. While explains the duration.

But The American Heritage (and other dictionaries as well) says:

2. At the same time that; although: While the grandparents love the children, they are strict with them.
 

Tdol

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If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works. the other way round does sound a bit strange. Sadly, I am going to hide behing the native speaker's defence of 'it sounds' rather than coming up with a sound reason.;-(
 

Taka

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Taka

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Let my ask one more thing. If the sentence were like "The street is wet, while it is not rainy", is it possible to take "while" as "although"?
 

twostep

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Taka said:
Let my ask one more thing. If the sentence were like "The street is wet, while it is not rainy", is it possible to take "while" as "although"?

The weather is rainy. It is raining.
For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.

In September the florist carries tulips although they are not in season.
 

twostep

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tdol said:
If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works. the other way round does sound a bit strange. Sadly, I am going to hide behing the native speaker's defence of 'it sounds' rather than coming up with a sound reason.;-(

Thank you for the flowers - absolutely non-native. Has anyone heard from Cassie lateley? She may have a logical explanation.
 

Francois

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I miss her already.
lol :)

The weather is rainy. It is raining.
For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

FRC
 

twostep

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Francois said:
I miss her already.
lol :)

The weather is rainy. It is raining.
For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

FRC

Confused, blonde day! Can you please translate this?
 

Tdol

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Francois

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twostep said:
Francois said:
I miss her already.
lol :)

The weather is rainy. It is raining.
For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

FRC

Confused, blonde day! Can you please translate this?
tdol said:
If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works.
As Tdol confirmed, this sentence is correct. Here, 'while' has more or less the same meaning as 'although'. This is not always the case, though. So the question is not about the logic of the sentence, but when can 'while' be used to mean 'although'.

FRC
 

twostep

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Francois said:
twostep said:
Francois said:
I miss her already.
lol :)

The weather is rainy. It is raining.
For some reason "while" does not fit. Try the common sense approach - the street is wet - no rain. You expect it to be wet when it rains. So - why is it wet? I think that is where "although" comes in place.
Taka knows that, the point is that 'while' sometimes means 'although', and it works indeed if you say "while it has not been raining, ...".
IMO, it does not sound right b/c natives don't use it, and they don't use it b/c it's too prone to confusion with the temporal meaning of 'while' (whereas the inversion makes it clear).

FRC

Confused, blonde day! Can you please translate this?
tdol said:
If you said 'while it hasn't been raining, the street is wet' it works.
As Tdol confirmed, this sentence is correct. Here, 'while' has more or less the same meaning as 'although'. This is not always the case, though. So the question is not about the logic of the sentence, but when can 'while' be used to mean 'although'.

FRC

He turned the sentence and thus the structure around.
 

Francois

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Yeah, we noticed that :)
When you turn it around, it becomes correct. Strange, isn't it?

FRC
 

blacknomi

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Hi, Taka,

There's an explanation based on Practical English Usge by Michael Swan.


balancing contrasting points:eek:n the other hand/while/whereas
These expressions are used to balance two facts or ideas that contrast, but do not contradic each other.
1. Arranged marriages are common in many Middle Eastern countries.In the West, on the other hand, they are unusual.
2.I like spending my hoilidays in the mountains, while/whereas my wife prefers the saeside.
3.While/Whereas some languages have 30 or more different vowel sounds, others have five or less.


Seems like turning it around just makes sense. The reversed one may sound a tad awkward. Hope that helps. :wink:
 
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