would or will

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jack

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I don't think that you'd want to pay for it, (if....) Conditional

Is it wrong without the conditional part? If so, why? Why does the other one work without the conditional part?
 

blacknomi

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I don't think that you'd want to pay for it, (if....) Conditional
'Would' is used when you are talking about imaginary or hypothetical things. Here in this sentence, I believe that you won't pay for it(in true). But, I am setting up an imaginary situation that you wouldn't pay for it, which is a bit contradictary to my belief.
It's the if(conditional)-concept that being used in the sentence rather than its structure, "If..., I would..... ." Do you understand? :D


I don't think that you will want to pay for it. (Future)
This one is not refering to any imaginary situation. It's a neutral fact that you will not pay for it. That's all.


If I use the former sentence, I'm not very confident if you would pay for it or not. That is to say, there're two possibilities, you would or you would not. If I use the latter sentence, I think you will not pay. There's only one possibility I have in my mind. But who knows if you change your mind and you will pay for it.


:) :D
 

Steven D

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blacknomi said:
I don't think that you'd want to pay for it, (if....) Conditional
'Would' is used when you are talking about imaginary or hypothetical things. Here in this sentence, I believe that you won't pay for it(in true). But, I am setting up an imaginary situation that you wouldn't pay for it, which is a bit contradictary to my belief.
It's the if(conditional)-concept that being used in the sentence rather than its structure, "If..., I would..... ." Do you understand? :D


I don't think that you will want to pay for it. (Future)
This one is not refering to any imaginary situation. It's a neutral fact that you will not pay for it. That's all.


If I use the former sentence, I'm not very confident if you would pay for it or not. That is to say, there're two possibilities, you would or you would not. If I use the latter sentence, I think you will not pay. There's only one possibility I have in my mind. But who knows if you change your mind and you will pay for it.


:) :D

Hi there,

That makes sense to me. I'll just see if I can put it into my own words. They might turn out to be similar to yours. :)

I don't think that you'd want to pay for it, (if....) Conditional


If the speaker uses "would", then he/she sees the possibility as being more distant. To the speaker, it is less of a possibility.

If the speaker uses "will", then he/she sees the possibility as being closer to reality. It is more of a possibility to the speaker.


I don't think you'd want to pay for it if it were over $500.00.

The listener might already have considered paying for it. The speaker is more cautious. There is not a good chance that it is going to be over $500.00 in the first place - I don't think.

I don't think you'll want to pay for it if it is over $500.00.

There's more of a chance here that it could be over $500.00 in the speaker's mind for some reason. We would need more context to know what the speaker is thinking about when he/she chooses to use either the first conditional or the second conditional - would as opposed to will.

I might have more to say on this later. I might have one or two other examples. I have one with some context surrounding it.


I'll have to dig it up later.


:D 8) :shock:
 

blacknomi

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X Mode said:
That makes sense to me. I'll just see if I can put it into my own words. They might turn out to be similar to yours. :)

Thank you, X Mode.

:oops: :drinking: :angel: :infinity:
:hi: :cheers:
:up: :up: :up:
:changes: :squarewi: :infinity:


I love your explanation which make people dig. If there is enough oxegon and popcorn under the ground, digging can be fun!
 

jack

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Apr 24, 2004
Thanks.

Are these correct? If not, why?
1. If I did not connect it correcly, there would be no sound. (Imaginary?)
2. If I did not connect it correcly, there will be no sound. (What does this mean?)

Are these correct?
3. If I did not connect it correcly, there will be no sound right now.
4. If I did not connect it correcly, there would be no sound right now.
 

Tdol

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1 is correct if talking about an imaginary situation and 2 would be better if you said 'haven't connected it correctly'. I don't see the need for 'right now' in 3&4- there's no need for emphasis.;-)
 

Steven D

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blacknomi said:
X Mode said:
That makes sense to me. I'll just see if I can put it into my own words. They might turn out to be similar to yours. :)

Thank you, X Mode.

:oops: :drinking: :angel: :infinity:
:hi: :cheers:
:up: :up: :up:
:changes: :squarewi: :infinity:


I love your explanation which make people dig. If there is enough oxegon and popcorn under the ground, digging can be fun!


Thanks you, and you're welcome.

:D 8) :shock: :D
 

jack

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Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Are these correct? How come I can't use 'had'? Is it b/c of 'would', I have to use the base word? How can I say something with past participle then?

1. It wouldn’t have exploded.
2. It wouldn’t had exploded.
 

jack

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Apr 24, 2004
What do these mean? Does it matter if I use present, present or past, past or present, past or present, or present past?

1. If I’m getting some proper sleep, I would be more awake right now.
2. If I’m getting some proper sleep right now, I will be more awake right now.
3. If I was getting some proper sleep, I would be more awake right now.
4. If I was getting some proper sleep, I will be more awake right now.

What do these mean?
5. I would like to thank you.
6. I will like to thank you .
 

Casiopea

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Try,

If I were getting enough sleep, I would be more awake right now. :D

I would like to thank you. :D
 

jack

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Apr 24, 2004
Does it matter if I use 'present /w present' or 'past /w past' or 'present /w past' or 'past /w present'?

What do these mean if I mix and match it?
1. If I’m getting some proper sleep, I would be more awake right now.
2. If I’m getting some proper sleep right now, I will be more awake right now.
3. If I were getting some proper sleep, I would be more awake right now.
4. If I were getting some proper sleep, I will be more awake right now.

5. I would like to thank you. (How come this doesn't mean past tense?)
6. I will like to thank you . (How come I don't see anyone using this?)

What do these mean?
7. What do these mean if I mix and match it? (Right now?)
8. What do these mean if I mixed and matched it? (Past?)
9. What do these mean if I mix and matched it? (Is this correct?)
 

Casiopea

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jack said:
Does it matter if I use 'present /w present' or 'past /w past' or 'present /w past' or 'past /w present'?

Yes. It matters. Use: If ... were... , ... would.... (Subjunctive)

jack said:
5. I would like to thank you. (How come this doesn't mean past tense?)

In that context, 'would' functions as a modal. There are two verbs WOULD: 1) the past tense of 'will' and 2) the modal 'would'.


jack said:
6. I will like to thank you . (How come I don't see anyone using this?)

'will' expresses volition: an action is required. The word 'like' is not an action, so it's not compatible with 'will'.


jack said:
7. What do these mean if I mix and match them? :D
8. What do these mean if I mixed and matched them? :(
9. What do these mean if I mix and matched them? :(

Present Verbs
What do these mean if I mix and match them?
 

jack

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Apr 24, 2004
'will' expresses volition: an action is required. The word 'like' is not an action, so it's not compatible with 'will'.

1. I will like to thank you. (How can I correct this without using 'would'?)

So this is wrong no matter what?
2. What do these mean if I mixed and matched them?
Why is the one above wrong?

Both of these are correct? But not the one above?
eg. I think you killed him.
eg. I think you kill him.
 

Casiopea

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jack said:
1. I will like to thank you. (How can I correct this without using 'would'?)

What do you mean "correct it"? :( If you change the word, you'll change the meaning.

jack said:
So this is wrong no matter what?
2. What do these mean if I mixed and matched them?

Yes. No matter what. :wink:

jack said:
Both of these are correct? But not the one above?
eg. I think you killed him. :D
eg. I think you kill him. :(

The second one is incorrect.
 

jack

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Apr 24, 2004
What about here?
1. I don't think you would want to pay for it if it is expensive? (So this is wrong right?)
2. I don't think you'd want to pay for it if it were over $500.00. ('were' is correct here? Why it isn't 'was'?

Yes. It matters. Use: If ... were... , ... would.... (Subjunctive)
Why is it that? Is it just a rule? Also, could you tell me what does 'subjunctive' mean? Thanks. I looked that word up up and it said something about a verb which is not yet a fact and is still contingent. What does that mean?
 

Casiopea

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would...were
1. I don't think you would want to pay for it if it were expensive? :D
2. I don't think you would want to pay for it if it were over $500.00. :D

jack said:
Also, could you tell me what does 'subjunctive' mean?

The subjunctive is a mood. It describes an event that's imagined, wished or possible. It's no longer active in Modern English. If you search on the Net under subjunctive, you'll find a great deal written about it. With "If", the subjunctive takes the form 'were...would' or 'would...were':

EX: If it were expensive (I'm guessing/imagining that it is expensive), I don't think you would want to pay for it.

EX: I don't think you would want to pay for it if it were expensive.
 

Casiopea

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jack said:
If it were...

This is incorrect? Why?
1. If it was...

There are two "were" verbs: 1) the plural past tense "were" and 2) the subjunctive "were", which is regular in all persons and numbers:

Subjunctive
I were
You were
S/he were
It were
They were

Past Tense BE
I was
You were
S/he was
It was
They were

Speakers these days are starting to use the BE "was/were" paradigm in place of the subjunctive "were" paradigm. The subjunctive is dying, so speakers rarely hear it anymore. When they are faced with, "If I ___ ...", speakers often use 'was' instead of 'were', but 'were' is the correct form tradidtionally.
 

jack

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Apr 24, 2004
Thanks.

I still don't get this one:
1. I will like to thank you. (I still don't understand why this is wrong? How can I test this one b/c I don't see any errors in it.

2. I would like a sports car.
3. I will like a sports car. (So this is wrong?)
 
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