[General] I should be grateful if you would?

eljmcl said:

Is 'I should be grateful if you would' correct English? I have been working at a firm of accountants for 4 1/2 years now where they use this phrase and when I first came across it I was insistent that it was incorrect as 'should' in this context is a possibility when in fact the context is an obligation.

Most common written example used:

'I should be grateful if you would return the form to me'.

I am happy to stand corrected, but to put my mind at rest I would appreciate any insight anyone has!

Many thanks

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konungursvia said:

I BrE, you can use "should" to mean the conditional "would." Remember Churchill's retort to a termagant who tried to insult him by saying "Sir, if you were my husband, I should [would] flavour your tea with poison."

He: "Madam, if you were my wife, I should drink it!"

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SoothingDave said:

Thanks. I know the anecdote, but always heard it (and told it) with "would."

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eljmcl said:

'I should be grateful if you would return the form to me'.


NOT A TEACHER


(1) All the other posters have given you the answer. I only wanted to add a

few points.

(2) I think that the problem lies in the use of the word "shall" for the first person ("I"

and "we").

(a) According to "perfect" English, one says "I/we shall go to the movies tomorrow."


The "experts" say that one uses "I/we will" only when we REALLY mean "WILL!"

In other words, "shall" for the future; "will" to show determination.

(i) In 2012, however, almost no Americans observe this distinction. They use "will"

for I, you, he, she, it, we, and they.

(3) [I have deleted this section because of the excellent following posts by Konungursvia and 5jj.]

(4) The people in your office are to be congratulated. They are trying to write

"perfect" English. But do not feel bad. Some experts say that we ordinary

people can NEVER learn to use "shall/should" correctly. Only those "to the

manner born" can do so (that is, those born into upper-class British families).

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TheParser said:

eljmcl said:

'I should be grateful if you would return the form to me'.


NOT A TEACHER


(1) All the other posters have given you the answer. I only wanted to add a

few points.

(2) I think that the problem lies in the use of the word "shall" for the first person ("I"

and "we").

(a) According to "perfect" English, one says "I/we shall go to the movies tomorrow."


The "experts" say that one uses "I/we will" only when we REALLY mean "WILL!"

In other words, "shall" for the future; "will" to show determination.

(i) In 2012, however, almost no Americans observe this distinction. They use "will"

for I, you, he, she, it, we, and they.

(3) As you know, the past tense of "shall" is "should." So if you want to speak

"perfect" English, one needs to say, "I should be happy if you would visit me

tonight." But since Americans do not follow this rule, we always hear "I would be

happy if you would ...."

(4) The people in your office are to be congratulated. They are trying to write

"perfect" English. But do not feel bad. Some experts say that we ordinary

people can NEVER learn to use "shall/should" correctly. Only those "to the

manner born" can do so (that is, those born into upper-class British families).

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It's a good answer, but I don't agree entirely with (3).

It's very likely correct that 'should' can in some cases act as the past tense of shall, but I think it's read as a conditional here. Incidentally, I only hear relatively uneducated AmE speakers double up the conditional: "I would be happy if you would return the form to me" (which ought rightly to be "I would be happy if you returned the form to me." Or I believe I'm right in saying this.

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konungursvia said:

TheParser said:

It's a good answer, but I don't agree entirely with (3).

It's very likely correct that 'should' can in some cases act as the past tense of shall, but I think it's read as a conditional here. Incidentally, I only hear relatively uneducated AmE speakers double up the conditional: "I would be happy if you would return the form to me" (which ought rightly to be "I would be happy if you returned the form to me." Or I believe I'm right in saying this.

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NOT A TEACHER


You are 100% correct that "many" Americans say something like:

" If I would have had time last night, I would have visited you"

instead of the correct "If I had had time last night, I would have ...."

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konungursvia said:

TheParser said:

Incidentally, I only hear relatively uneducated AmE speakers double up the conditional: "I would be happy if you would return the form to me" (which ought rightly to be "I would be happy if you returned the form to me." Or I believe I'm right in saying this.

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If a polite request is intended, this form is fine:

I would be grateful if you would drive me to the airport .:tick:
I don't think he's very ill. I would be surprised if he [STRIKE]would die[/STRIKE] died.

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SoothingDave said:

Must be a BrE thing. I would rather hear that they will be grateful, not that they should. ;-)

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5jj said:

konungursvia said:

If a polite request is intended, this form is fine:

I would be grateful if you would drive me to the airport .:tick:
I don't think he's very ill. I would be surprised if he [STRIKE]would die[/STRIKE] died.

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NOT A TEACHER


I am so grateful to you for teaching me the difference between:

I should/would be happy if you would visit me. = polite request.

I should/would be happy if you visited me. = If you visited me (you probably

are not going to), I should/would be happy.

(Now I have to edit my original post again. Don't want to mislead any learners

such as I.)

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