I said:
Actually, normally, most Present Perfect sentences don't link to any time. They don't imply such a span of time, "of which a start point and an end point is needed".
You replied:
That’s the way I see it, too. No start, no end, just a circular span, no pun intended. In fact, the true function of the Present Perfect is to take focus off Time so as to place more focus on the event
My reply: So, I see no span of time because I am seeing a
circular span? If so, don't you think you need to explain a bit what is "circular span"? If without further explanation, it is pun. When explained, it is then no pun, as simple as this. :wink:
Personally, I don't know what is "circular span". But I am an old man with little knowledge, so I don't count. Somehow, I hope I could get back to age of 21, by way of "circular span".
We are talking about a span of time. How can a time shuttle back and fro like a circle? I don't know. I can't understand how I am able to turn the time back, controlling it. Actually, time has no return. You only have got "lineal span". :!:
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Cas wrote:
That’s why *“I have lived in Japan in the past week” is ungrammatical.
My reply:
My goodness, I don't know you have this idea: It is ungrammatical. No wonder you have kept giving me the example:
Ex: I have seen him (jogging) in the past week.
Why didn't we use some
grammatical examples of the Past Family? I suggest a way how we find examples in a fair way: Go to yahoo and type in "in the past few years", a member of the Past Family, and see how many Present Perfect we can find:
Ex: Photography has come along way in the past few years.
:roll: I want to report to you, most searching results are in Present Perfect. You are lucky enough if you notice a few Simple Past working with the Past Family. Even with Simple Past, the writers are still victims of grammar books which say Simple Past works with specific past time, and hide the Past Family away. More victims are now in Asia. (see further below).
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:B-fly: Many grammar writers would teach us not to use Specific Past Time, such as
yesterday, last year with Present Perfect. For example from the following page:
http://conversa1.com/presentperfectpastsimple.htm
NOTE: We do NOT use specific time expressions with the Present Perfect. We cannot say, for example, "I have eaten spaghetti yesterday."
I did not deliberately find rare examples. I just went to yahoo and typed in key words such as "specific past time Present Perfect", and chose one in the first page among many pages of matches. Statements like this quotation are frequent. However, very unfortunately, it is the assuredness such as this that forbids they touch the Past Family.
The pattern of the Past Family, like "in the past xx years", can be as specific as down to a few years, or months, or weeks, or days, or hours, or minutes, or even seconds:
8) :lol: Ex: "I have watched over him
for the past five minutes."
They are specific enough!! Compared with them, "yesterday" is non-specific at all:
Ex: I saw him yesterday.
== I didn't see him the whole day. I didn't say exactly when in yesterday. Comparatively, "yesterday" is a very unspecific time, measured and compared with "in the past five minutes".
On the other hand, are the Past Family PAST? Yes, I can bet anything on it. The Past is the same Past in "Specific Past Time". :idea:
Therefore, the Past Family are both specific and past. And this is the trouble. This is why they are guilty and put into concealment, poor thing. However, the concealment is not the end of the story. Rather, it is just the beginning. Following the common rule such as the quotation above, Asians frequently use Simple Past with the Past Family:
Ex: *They worked here for the past five years.
They would say, "Why not Simple Past?"
It is specific, and it is past, students pointed out. Most of all, they would appeal, grammar books don't teach that "in the past five years" cannot stay with Simple Past! Students even challenged us: Do you have any grammar which foolishly say "in the past five years" can possibly stay with Present Perfect? No! Therefore this time adverbial must be used with Simple Past, they concluded!!
We teachers are speechless.
Why will someone produce such a quotation above, without giving a word to the Past Family?
Some teachers have listlessly given up to students, "Go ahead, may be you right, use Simple Past (with the Past Family)." Some are seeking for help. I am not here giving you confusions. Not at all. On the contrary, grammar books written by native English speakers have heaped lots of confusions upon you and me. Give me the good answer of the Past Family and we Asian teachers will say thanks for a thousand times to you English native speakers.
Please teach us how to make a span of time circular. We have to explain to students.