Why do we use schwa for words like Winner instead of...

[LordJenkins]

Hi guys, just wondering why schwa is used in RP for words such as winner, under, yorkshire etc... instead of [ɜː]?

[ɜː] makes more sense to me lol

 

[5jj]

Hi guys, just wondering why schwa is used in RP for words such as winner, under, yorkshire etc... instead of [ɜː]?

[ɜː] makes more sense to me lol

Pronunciation is not a matter of sense - it's just what we do. As a very broad generalisation, English happens to be more of a stress-timed than a syllable-timed language. Many of the vowels in unstressed syllables become schwa. That's the way it is.

 

[mara_ce]

I´d like to add that /ə/ occurs only in unaccented syllables, whereas /ɜ:/ can occur in syllables carrying primary or secondary accent.

Let´s take "winner" and "worker" as examples:

/ˈwɪn.ə/

/ˈwɜː.kə /

 

[konungursvia]

Hi guys, just wondering why schwa is used in RP for words such as winner, under, yorkshire etc... instead of [ɜː]?

[ɜː] makes more sense to me lol

Actually, spoken English has the strangest phenomenon: vowel simplification. We pronounce about 55% of our vowels as "the schwa" in a movement I call the "lazy vowel."

It is the main reason English speakers tend to do so badly in foreign languages, until they can overcome the habit.

Compare:
Spanish: "internacional" : [in ter na sjo 'nal]
English: "international" : /ˌɪn.təˈnæʃ.ən.əl/

/-t ̬ɚ-/

In Spanish, all five vowels receive their full pronunciation with their nominal quality. In English, only two do.

Another:
Spanish: "America" : [a me ri ka]
English: "America" as pronounced by George Bush: /əm 'er ək ə/
Again, all vowels are fully formed in Spanish, but one of the four is in English.

Your example is just another instance of vowel simplification, our lazy vowel phenomenon.

 

[Buddhaheart]

Hi guys, just wondering why schwa is used in RP for words such as winner, under, yorkshire etc... instead of [ɜː]?

[ɜː] makes more sense to me lol

In US & Canada, "worker" is usually pronounced as /Nwɜ+r.kər/ & "winner" as /Nwɪn.ər/. That is, we do pronounce the retroflex /r/.

The schwa /ə/ is also called the "reduced vowel."

 

[riquecohen]

I´d like to add that /ə/ occurs [STRIKE]only[/STRIKE] mostly in unaccented syllables, whereas /ɜ:/ can occur in syllables carrying primary or secondary accent.

Let´s take "winner" and "worker" as examples:

/ˈwɪn.ə/

/ˈwɜː.kə /

H.

 

[mara_ce]

Hi, riquecohen.

Personally, I haven´t seen /ə/ in accented syllables. (I´m not referring to diphthongs)

Gimson´s Pronunciation of English uses the word “only” when it compares /ə/ with /ɜ:/.

 

[riquecohen]

Hi Mara-
I haven't been able to find any citations to support my claim. I'll try checking some other sources tomorrow.

I haven't found any source that supports my comment. A search has revealed adverbs such as frequently, mostly, typically and usuallly when applying the schwa to unstressed syllables, but no concrete examples of the schwa sound occurring in stressed syllables. So, I concede to always.

 

[Learner91]

In US & Canada, "worker" is usually pronounced as /Nwɜ+r.kər/ & "winner" as /Nwɪn.ər/. That is, we do pronounce the retroflex /r/.

The schwa /ə/ is also called the "reduced vowel."

u beat me to it.in american english,d R sound is always pronounced

 

[riquecohen]

u beat me to it.in american english,d R sound is always pronounced Not always. Buddhaheart said usually; he is correct.

What kind of English is this?
This is a forum to discuss various aspects of the English language. Please try to use proper punctuation and capitalization and refrain from using computer jargon.

 

[birdeen's call]

Hi, riquecohen.

Personally, I haven´t seen /ə/ in accented syllables. (I´m not referring to diphthongs)

Gimson´s Pronunciation of English uses the word “only” when it compares /ə/ with /ɜ:/.

Schwa's definiton may be a problem here. If you google "stressed schwa", you will find many claims that stressed schwa exists in some accents.

How about stressed "the" not pronounced like "thee"? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nTmSu6v0LA 2:23)

 

[mara_ce]

Thanks for the observation. :up:

I usually consult dictionaries such as Cambridge, Longman and Jones. I haven´t seen schwa in accented syllables.

I learned BrE, so I pay special attention to that pronunciation.

I couldn´t find anything related to "stressed schwa" in Gimson.

 

[BobK]

Hi guys, just wondering why schwa is used in RP for words such as winner, under, yorkshire etc... instead of [ɜː]?
:-? Because that's the way they're pronounced.
[ɜː] makes more sense to me lol

In what sense of 'sense'?

b