Present perfect

[liliumcandidum]

Hello,
I would like a sound argument on the following: is there any situation in English when present perfect used with since/for denotes an action no longer taking place/happening in the present, but has, of course, present consequences? Or there is no such situation whatsoever?

Thank you and I look forward to your answer!

 

[bhaisahab]

Hello,
I would like a sound argument on the following: is there any situation in English when present perfect used with since/for denotes an action no longer taking place/happening in the present, but has, of course, present consequences? Or there is no such situation whatsoever?

Thank you and I look forward to your answer!

The station has been closed for ten years. The station has been closed since 2001.
Is that what you mean?

 

[liliumcandidum]

Yes, something like that, although the ideea is the same as in the rest of the cases with for and since, i.e. the station is still closed; the finished action, that I referred to in my post, is that they stopped working there then, in the past. Did I understand correctly?

I feel that Present Perfect has many more implications than the usual uses listed in grammar books, and that these implications depend very much on the semantic load each verb carries. Am I right?

Thank you.

 

[birdeen's call]

I've been to Italy twice.

 

[5jj]

I've been to Italy twice since my daughter died.

 

[Barb_D]

I"ve eaten there many times since we moved here, but the last few times were not very good. I think I will take it off my list and not eat there again.

 

[Matthew Hill]

My feeling is that in all the above examples the underlying time reference is the past leading to the present.

Eg "I've been there twice since.../for..." the implied time expression is in my life so far (which is continuing in the present).

Matthew

 

[5jj]

My feeling is that in all the above examples the underlying time reference is the past leading to the present.

Eg "I've been there twice since.../for..." the implied time expression is in my life so far (which is continuing in the present).

Quite. But, as I see it, that was not the point of your original question.

 

[bhaisahab]

"My grandfather has been dead for forty six years." In this sentence we can see that he died forty six years ago, he is not still dying but he is still dead. I would say that in terms of your original question, "... there is no such situation whatsoever".

 

[5jj]

"My grandfather has been dead for forty six years." In this sentence we can see that he died forty six years ago, he is not still dying but he is still dead. I would say that in terms of your original question, "... there is no such situation whatsoever".

It depends on how you read the original question:

is there any situation in English when present perfect used with since/fordenotes an action no longer taking place/happening in the present, but has, of course, present consequences? Or there is no such situation whatsoever?

I think that my "I've been to Italy twice since my daughter died" does denote an action no longer taking place/happening in the present but having present consequences.

 

[bhaisahab]

It depends on how you read the original question:

is there any situation in English when present perfect used with since/fordenotes an action no longer taking place/happening in the present, but has, of course, present consequences? Or there is no such situation whatsoever?

I think that my "I've been to Italy twice since my daughter died" does denote an action no longer taking place/happening in the present but having present consequences.

Yes I know, at first I wasn't sure what he meant hence my comments in post #2. In post #3 he clarifies (a bit) and, taking the two together, I came to my conclusion in post #9.

 

[5jj]

Yes I know, at first I wasn't sure what he meant hence my comments in post #2. In post #3 he clarifies (a bit) and, taking the two together, I came to my conclusion in post #9.

Right. Let's see if liliumcandidum has any comments/questions.

 

[liliumcandidum]

Greetings and thanks for answering me!
The idea is that in Romanian, students understand Pr Pf by associating it with these tenses of the Indicative:

Indicative Prezent (similar to Pres Simple in Engl)
John has lived here for 10 years. (as if you said: John lives here for ten years.) because he still lives here, he hasn't moved out

The same happens with Pr Pf Progr, which confuses them more as they don't see the point of expressing the same thing with two tenses, no matter how many times you may try explain to them that in this case it's the emphasis on the duration of the action which is still taking place in the present.

Now the above things come after you tell them, and here is the problem, that in the following they have to see this as Past action with present consequences:

I have read the book. (in Rom we use Indicative trecut (-understand Past Simple) as if we said in Engl I read the book.)

and have read and read do not cover the same meaning!

So, after this, many students understand this sentence:

John has lived here for 10 years.

as John lived here for 10 years. ie he doesn't live here anymore

As far as I have read and asked, many English native speakers see Pr Pf as a past tense while, as I have been taught, it is a present one, hence the name; when it comes to for and since, although the action began at some indefinite time in the past, the results linger on/continue up to the present, when for and since are folowed by time period.

This is it. I apologize if I was a bit unclear at the beggining of my post.
Thank you all and if there are any comments/suggestions, please do!

 

[5jj]

As far as I have read and asked, many English native speakers see Pr Pf as a past tense while, as I have been taught, it is a present one, hence the name;

I don't think you will find many native speakers who know anything about the language thinking of it is a past tense.

when it comes to for and since, although the action began at some indefinite time in the past, the results linger on/continue up to the present, when for and since are followed by a time period.

This is true of most uses of the present perfect. The action itself, or the results, consequences, implications, have some connection with present time.