Is 'find useful' elliptical?

[donnach]

Manufacturers like to know what features consumers find useful.

Useful is an adjective and shouldn't work for the transitive verb useful, but it does.

Is this due to ellipsis? Ex: ...what features consumers find are useful.

Thanks,

Donna

 

[Frank Antonson]

You could expand that sentence to ..".which consumers find to be useful."..

The quoted clause is then clearly an adjective clause with the relative pronoun acting as the direct object. "To be useful" is then more clearly an objective complement, as in "The sun makes apples ripe".

 

[Afit]

Manufacturers like to know what features consumers find useful.

Consumers find [these features (to be) useful]

These features are useful.

"useful" is an object-related complement. An object complement's analogy with a subject complement can be shown by the possible insertion of "to be" and by paralleling the (SV)OC structure with a finite SVC one (see above). "useful" qualifies "features", hence the adjectival nature.

 

[Afit]

Manufacturers like to know what features consumers find useful.

Manufacturers = Subject of the matrix-clause and subject of the superordinate clause

like to know -- main verb

what features consumers find useful = object of "know", subordinate clause

what = conjunctive determiner

consumers = Subject of the subordinate clause
find = verb
what features = object
useful = object complement

 

[donnach]

Afit,

Does this type of construction have a name?

.....what features consumers find useful = object/subject/verb/object complement

It works with the verb think as well, and deem. It seems this may be a common construction for verbs of opinion or discovery.

What are your thoughts? And, have you heard any general explanation for this type of syntax?

Thanks!

 

[Frank Antonson]

I would call that an objective complement. With objective complements the words "to be" can often be inserted.

 

[donnach]

I agree that it's an object complement. In regard to Afit's parsing, is this 'verb object before the verb' structure commonplace in certain situations?

consumers = Subject of the subordinate clause
find = verb
what features = object
useful = object complement

Also, would you call the elliptical to be an infinitive acting as a noun?

Thanks!

 

[Frank Antonson]

I hate to say this, but Afit's diagram is wrong.

"To know" is an infinitive acting as the direct object.

Also, the line before "useful" is sloped in the wrong direction.

I need to start diagramming online again. I am out of practice.

 

[Frank Antonson]

Also, "what" is the direct object of "find". It is not a modifier.

 

[donnach]

I see. But what, then, is 'features'?

 

[Frank Antonson]

You'e right.

I forgot about "features". It is the subject, modified by "what".

"Which" , I believe, is understood. I need to look again at the sentence.

 

[Frank Antonson]

No, wait. "Features" is not the subject. It is the direct object within the infinitive phrase.

I must look at that sentence -- and diagram it (if I remember how to do that online).

 

[donnach]

Can't it be both?

 

[Frank Antonson]

No, the infinitive phrase does not have a subject."Consumers" is the subject of the adjective clause included within the infinitive phrase. "Which"( or "that") is the understood relative pronoun.

An R-K diagram would clearly show this all.

 

[Curt Jugg]

I don't know anything about diagramming, but how about this analysis (based on A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Quirk et al.):



"what features consumers find useful" is a wh-interrogative clause

"find" is a complex transitive verb requiring a direct object and an object complement

"what features" is the direct object

"useful" is the object complement

 

[Frank Antonson]

That all may be right. Quirk is a different reference from the one most used in the USA. I do not recognize your first term at all (though I see nothing interrogative about the sentence.)

Diagramming, the American way (Reed-Kellogg q.v.) does not involve using any grammatical terms. The placement of the actual words of the sentence within the diagram shows the entire syntax.

 

[Frank Antonson]

 

[Curt Jugg]

That all may be right. Quirk is a different reference from the one most used in the USA. I do not recognize your first term at all (though I see nothing interrogative about the sentence.)

Diagramming, the American way (Reed-Kellogg q.v.) does not involve using any grammatical terms. The placement of the actual words of the sentence within the diagram shows the entire syntax.

I agree that there is nothing interrogative about the sentence; I was referring to the clause beginning "what..." But as Quirk isn't much used in the US I won't intrude further

 

[donnach]

I don't know anything about diagramming, but how about this analysis (based on A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Quirk et al.):



"what features consumers find useful" is a wh-interrogative clause

"find" is a complex transitive verb requiring a direct object and an object complement

"what features" is the direct object

"useful" is the object complement

I still find it strange that the direct object can be in front of the subject, verb, and object complement of the clause. Any thoughts on how to reconcile the fact of the situation with my thinking it's awkward and weird?

 

[Curt Jugg]

Oh dear, I did say I wasn't going to intrude further, but since you've asked, I don't think there's anything strange about a direct object being in front of a subject. After all, what about the sentence, “What do you want?” The subject is obviously “you” and the direct object “what”. Or have I misunderstood what you are asking?