having had a "mystical" experience

[keannu]

Is this "had" a mistake of the writer or a does it have any meaning? "Having had" can have a meaning, but then it needs a verb, which actually is not there. I suspected me having seen it wrong, but definitely this is what is on the book.

st152
ex)One remarkable discovery emerging from science is that we are not cut off from the rest of the universe...For example, surveys of the American adult population show that two-thirds say they have had an experience of extrasensory perception such as an accurate intuition about the well-being of someone who is far away. In addition, about 40 percent report having had a "mystical" experience such as seeing the universe as alive and feeling a sense of great peace and safety within that aliveness...

 

[Barb_D]

I don't know why you object to this. It's not an error, and is quite common when referring to something experienced in the past.

I recall having had a delicous meal when passing through this town many years ago.
She remembered having had a bad feeling when she first met him but ignoring her intuition.

I suppose the meaning is the same as "I recall that I had had" or "She remmebered that she had had" but you don't have to repeat the subject with the "having had" construction.

40 percent report that they had had = 40 percent report having had.

 

[birdeen's call]

Hi, Barb D. Why "had had" and not "have had" in the equation? It has always been confusing to me how natives speakers use their past perfect when what I've been taught tells me the present perfect is the right choice. (The past perfect in the previous sentences is clear to me.)

 

[keannu]

Thanks a lot! As birdeen indicated, I would say "40 percent report that they have had" is a correct interpretation for it, but I have never encountered this kind of sentence. It's really rare as even if such sentences are shortened forms with the subject implied, I've always seen a verb connected later in the same sentence. So I can't help but infer the subject from the context, especially from the previous sentence.(American adult population)

 

[Barb_D]

You could use either. The more distant in the past (the past before the survey) the more likely the past perfect. But if you wrote it with present perfect that would feel fine too.

 

[keannu]

Okay, thanks a lot, but that's not what still doesn't leave my mind. Which do you think "they" mean? Just the general investigators who conducted the survery or the respondents? I'm really stunned at this composition, which I experience in thirty years of learning.

ex)40 percent report that they had had = 40 percent report having had

 

[SoothingDave]

Okay, thanks a lot, but that's not what still doesn't leave my mind. Which do you think "they" mean? Just the general investigators who conducted the survery or the respondents? I'm really stunned at this composition, which I experience in thirty years of learning.

ex)40 percent report that they had had = 40 percent report having had

40 percent of those adults surveyed.

 

[Raymott]

I don't think this is an example of the past perfect in preference to present perfect. It's simply the back shifting of reported speech.
40% said "I have had a mystical experience". (Present perfect)
"40% were reported as having had a mystical experience."
"40% reported that they had had a mystical experience." (back shifted)

 

[keannu]

Oh, my God!!! How absentminded or careless I was that I noticed "report" as a noun instead of a verb, Now you don't have to explain to me, I know it too perfectly!!!

 

[birdeen's call]

I don't think this is an example of the past perfect in preference to present perfect. It's simply the back shifting of reported speech.
40% said "I have had a mystical experience". (Present perfect)
"40% were reported as having had a mystical experience."
"40% reported that they had had a mystical experience." (back shifted)

My problem is that "report" is actually in a present tense in this sentence.

 

[emsr2d2]

My problem is that "report" is actually in a present tense in this sentence.

Yes, but it fits with "say" and "feeling" in other parts of the piece.

 

[Raymott]

My problem is that "report" is actually in a present tense in this sentence.

Yes, I didn't label "having had" as being either present or past perfect. I'm not sure what that construction is properly called.
(In post #2, Barb made the comparisons to past perfect, by introducing "I recall ..." etc.

But it can't be "having have" because both the present and past perfect tense require the past participle. I suspect it's still present perfect.
"Peter has had a good dinner." (Present perfect)
"Peter, having had a good dinner, watched TV" (Present perfect continuous?) If that is the case, the past perfect tense is not used at all in the original sentence, and is a red herring.
Maybe philo, or some other grammarian could elucidate.

 

[5jj]

In addition, about 40 percent report having had a "mystical" experience such as seeing the universe as alive and feeling a sense of great peace and safety within that aliveness...

The words actually spoken would have been: "I have had a mystical experience".

We can report this as:
1. 40% report that thay have had ...
2. 40 % reported that they have had ...
3.40% reported that they had had ,,,

#2 is possible only if the reported situation is still true.

If we wish to use a pefct participle constructons then the possible forms are:

1. 40% report having had ...
2 & 3. 40% reported having had...

 

[keannu]

I've always explained to others that "having+p.p" doesn't have any absolute tense, and it's only relative tense that is one tense prior to the tense of the main verb. "Relative tense" seems to be the proper term for "having+p.p", "to have p.p" in my opinion.