When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one?

[thincat]

Hi,

I am learning English as my second language. I would like to know when two alveolar sounds come together, do native speakers pronounce the first one?

For example, although IPAs given for "partly" and "rapidly" are /ˈpɑːtli/ and /ˈræpɪdli/, as /t/,/d/ and /l/ are of the same place of articulation, do native speakers omit /t/ and /d/ (or make /t/ and /d/ to be something silent) and simply pronounce them like /ˈpɑːli/ and /ˈræpɪli/?

When I listen to the online dictionary pronunciations, it seems that no /d/ and /t/ sounds can be heard in these two words.

Here are the links of the online Oxford Dictionary with recorded pronunciations:
rapid - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
partly - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Thank you!

 

[5jj]

Here are the links of the online Oxford Dictionary with recorded pronunciations:
rapid - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
partly - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Thank you!

In Both BrE and AME versions of 'rapidly', I heard the 'd'. I also heard the 't' in the BrE version of 'partly'. It was completely unexploded in the AmE version, but it was there. That AmE version was definitely not /ˈpɑːli/

 

[raindoctor]

You can release a stop consonant in many ways.
1. No release at all
2. open release
3. nasal release
4. lateral release

In dl, tl clusters, you can laterally release d/t; this is one way of presenting. The other way is to look at how you transition from one consonant to another consonant: open transition vs close transition. In English, they are close transitions. Open transitions sound foreign: imagine those foreign speakers who appear to be adding a vowel between consonants.

 

[thincat]

Thanks a lot for all of your comments. When I re-listen to the dictionary pronunciation several times, I guess the speakers "blend" the two consonants so that /t/ and /d/ sound unexploded and less clear to a foreign speaker like me.

I have tried to record my own pronunciation of the two words. In sound files, "partly1" and "rapidly1," I attempted to make the /t/ and /d/ more explicit, at least to myself. In sound files, "partly2" and "rapidly2," I tried to imitate the dictionary pronunciation.

If I would appreciate it very much if you would comment on my pronunciation and tell me which ones are better.

 

[5jj]

'partly 2' is much more natural than 'partly 1'. I did not observe a great difference between the two 'rapidly' files.

 

[BobK]

:-? Really. I'd have it the other way round. I can't detect any sort of /l/ in partly 2.

(Incidentally, thincat, it's /bɪkɒz/. You make the second vowel more like /ɔ:/ - as it is in 'cause'. ;-))

b

 

[5jj]

:-? Really. I'd have it the other way round. I can't detect any sort of /l/ in partly 2.

I've listened again. I still think the /t/ is less unnatural* in #2 than in #1, and the 'l' is clear enough to me, except perhaps in the very first 'partly'.


*perhaps 'much more natural was a little too positive.

 

[BobK]

Something is audible where the (theoretical) /l/ should be in partly 2, but it sounds to me more like [d]. Maybe this is because the speaker isn't managing the lateral release properly, so that when released it sounds like a voiced plosive. But your ear has been trained more recently than mine. ;-)

b

 

[5jj]

... your ear has been trained more recently than mine.b

Less long ago than yours. :lol:

 

[thincat]

Thanks a lot for all of your comments.
I try to make the recording of "partly" once again and attempt to pronounce the /l/ sound more like a /l/ instead of a /d/. I guess this is the best I can as I am somehow restricted by my mother language.

 

[BobK]

That's better. ;-)

b