The article before "public", definite or indefinite?

[Matthew Wai]

The two posts below are copied from this thread.

1-He is dealing with an easily fooled public.

It refers to a section of the public which is easily fooled — not all the public.

public - definition of public by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
There are examples: "the reading public", "the racing public" and "the book-buying public".
They all refer to a section of the public, but "the" is used. Is "the" also correct?

 

[bhaisahab]

The two posts below are copied from this thread.


public - definition of public by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
There are examples: "the reading public", "the racing public" and "the book-buying public".
They all refer to a section of the public, but "the" is used. Is "the" also correct?

Yes, in the proper context.

 

[Tdol]

The book-buying public is those who buy books, so it is not the same as the example from navi tasan's thread- it's all of a group.

 

[Matthew Wai]

What's wrong with "the easily fooled public"? In a dictatorship, the public at large are easily fooled by the government.

 

[Raymott]

What's wrong with "the easily fooled public"? In a dictatorship, the public at large are easily fooled by the government.

In that case, in two dictatorships, you have two publics. The original sentence deals with only one of them. 'Publics' is not often used, but you should be able to see the usage of 'a public'.
You will encounter this often with other terms. "He writes for an intelligent readership"; "The Australian governments provide facilities for a sporty population."

 

[Matthew Wai]

The original sentence deals with only one of them.

I didn't expect the original sentence is used in a context involving more than one nation.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I didn't expect the original sentence is used in a context involving more than one nation.

You seem to be having a problem with this concept. Take this example:

This new virus will devastate a susceptible population.

Why "a" and not "the"? In this case, the "population" shares something in common, but they have yet to be specifically identified. The original example is similar. The "public'" in the original shares a common characteristic, but the members of the group have not been specifically identified.
This is different from "the book-buying" public. These people have been identified by their having bought books.

 

[Matthew Wai]

"A discontented public will not be conducive to the implementation of government policy."
"The middle-class public is discontented because of the heavy taxes imposed on them."

Are they correct?

 

[MikeNewYork]

"A discontented public will not be conducive to the implementation of government policy."
"The middle-class public is discontented because of the heavy taxes imposed on them."

Are they correct?

I would accept both of those. "Middle class" is more specifically identified than "discontented'.

 

[Matthew Wai]

In all dictionaries, the article used before "real McCoy" is "the". Is it correct to use "a" in the sentence below?
"How to verify whether my Rolex Watch is a real McCoy or a bogus product?"

 

[MikeNewYork]

In all dictionaries, the article used before "real McCoy" is "the". Is it correct to use "a" in the sentence below?
"How to verify whether my Rolex Watch is a real McCoy or a bogus product?"

"The" is correct.

 

[Raymott]

"The" is correct.

Yes, but more to the point, 'a' is not correct.

@OP: This is a fixed idiom. You must use "the".

 

[MikeNewYork]

Yes, but more to the point, 'a' is not correct.

@OP: This is a fixed idiom. You must use "the".

I wouldn't go that far. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22a+real+mccoy%22&oq=%22a+real+mccoy%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.20634j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

 

[bhaisahab]

Until I saw Mike's link I had never seen "a real McCoy".

 

[Matthew Wai]

While the dictionaries read "the public", it is correct to say "a public".
While the dictionaries read "the real McCoy", it is incorrect to say "a real McCoy".
Why?

 

[5jj]

While the dictionaries read "the public", it is correct to say "a public".
While the dictionaries read "the real McCoy", it is incorrect to say "a real McCoy".
Why?

Dictionaries define words; good dictionaries give examples of the words in sentences to illustrate the meanings. Dictionaries, even the massive OED cannot define every way in which the word can, or has been used, and they certainly don't explain all the acceptable usages of articles with nouns. The definite article is commonly used with the noun 'public' but, as we have seen, the indefinite article is possible, particularly when an adjective is present. It is not incorrect to say 'a real McCoy', but contexts in which that is natural are rare. The expression most of us know and use has the definite article.

 

[5jj]

Slightly off-topic

From time to time we remind members that there is no 'Academy' to decide what is correct or aceptable in English.

Modern dictionaries and grammars record what native speakers actually say and write, not what they should say and write. Some lexicographers and grammarians give advice, based on their findings, as to what is generally accepted as standard usage, but such advice is not binding on anybody. Writers of style guides and of publishers' 'rules', may prescribe certain usages and proscribe others but, once again, the general public is not obliged to pay heed to them.

People who respond in forums such as this often give very useful advice but, as you see, we sometimes don't agree. That does not necessarily mean that one of is wrong. It usually means that more than one suggestion can be acceptable to many native speakers. When it comes to how the indefinite and definte article are used, you may find that in a group of half a dozen native-speaking teachers and grammarians, no two will agree exactly on the 'best' article in every place in some texts.

Learners who speak languages for which there is an 'Academy' which passes judgement on any and every question about language usage may find this surprising, but you'll have to accept it. There is often no point in worrying about why this is so.

 

[Matthew Wai]

From time to time we remind members that ...

I suggest that this reminder be included in the Forum Policies and Guidelines.