Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

[Freeguy]

Many believe that this sentence is incorrect in both formal and informal usage. However. Michael Swan goes for being correct in informal usage. What do you think? ( I would say: My friends and I spent ..... . In both viewpoints.)

Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

 

[SoothingDave]

It's incorrect. I would not teach it to anyone.

Yes, you will hear such things in real life. Maybe eventually enough people will use it to have it be considered "correct."

But it is not correct now.

 

[5jj]

Does Swan actually say it's correct​ in informal usage?

 

[Roman55]

I am not a teacher.

This is what Swan says:

These structures are often condemned as 'incorrect', but they have been common in educated speech for centuries. (There are examples of me in double subjects in Jane Austen's novels, written around 1800.) They are, however, restricted to a very informal style. They are not correct in formal speech or writing.

 

[tzfujimino]

Hello.:-D
In Practical English Usage (Third Edition), on page 404, Michael Swan writes:

We often use object forms in double subjects in informal speech.
John and me are going skiing this weekend.
Me and the kids spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

Us is sometimes used as a subject together with a noun.
Us women understand these things better than you men.

And I is often used informally in double objects.
Between you and I, I think his marriage is in trouble.
That's a matter for Peter and I.
I often think of the old days and how you helped Bertie and I. (letter from Queen Elizabeth, wife of the future King George Ⅵ, to King Edward Ⅷ)

These structures are often condemned as 'incorrect', but they have been common in educated speech for centuries. (There are examples of me in double subjects in Jane Austen's novels, written around 1800.) They are, however, restricted to a very informal style. They are not correct in formal speech or writing.

(I (=tzfujimino) underlined the last two sentences for emphasis.)

(Edit) Cross-posted with Roman.

 

[Tdol]

A lot depends on how you want to define correct in informal usage- many native speakers do use it, but many wince when they hear it. The former think it's correct, the latter incorrect. There are differences of opinion, so it's the old prescriptive/descriptive divide. I'd certainly advise a learner not to use it, because not using it will not annoy anyone. I wouldn't teach it as an equally acceptable alternative, but I would let them know that it is used because they will come across it.

In formal language, the naysayers hold sway.

 

[5jj]

As I suspected, Swan does not actually say it's correct in informal language.

 

[Tdol]

I think it may be one of Swan's foibles- I saw him give a talk a few years ago and he used me and John and between you and I as examples. If my memory serves, he took things from Shakespeare and Jane Austen to show that they had literary form.

 

[Barb_D]

many wince when they hear it.

I'm a wincer.
As I am with "between you and I" or "send your response to Susan and myself" and I'm a big wincer at "very unique." But I still wouldn't correct anyone except my own children.

 

[5jj]

One of the many things I like about Swan is that he does tell learners the truth - they will actually hear and see native speakers using constructions some of us condemn. I haven't yet actually caught him telling learners that it's fine for them to use such constructions.

 

[Freeguy]

What do you define this part of Swan's claim?

We often use object forms in double subjects in informal speech.
John and me are going skiing this weekend.
Me and the kids spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

It means that he agrees on the accuracy of that.

 

[Freeguy]

What does "wincer" mean in your sentence, Barb?

 

[Roman55]

It means that he agrees on the accuracy of that.

I am not a teacher.

No, it means that people often use it in informal speech, nothing more.

A wincer is someone who winces. It's in the dictionary.

 

[emsr2d2]

I'm a wincer and a correcter. If I know someone well enough (or they are a student or a non-native speaker), I will tell them that, regardless of how many native speakers they hear using it, "Me and my friends/me and my dad" etc is poor English and that it should be "My friends and I/My dad and I" etc. I always give them the information I was given some 30 years ago by an excellent English 'O' Level teacher:

If you want to work out if you should use "me" or "I" in that kind of situation, try removing the other person from the sentence and see if it still makes sense. For example:

Me and my friends went to the cinema.
Take your friends out of the equation and you are left with "Me went to the cinema". We all know that's wrong. The leftover sentence would need to be "I went to the cinema". Therefore, the original must be "My friends and I went to the cinema".

My dad and I live in a house.
Take your dad out of the equation and you are left with "Me live in a house". Again, we all know that is wrong. The sentence would be "I live in a house". Therefore, the original must be "My dad and I live in a house".

 

[5jj]

It's 'poor English' only in the sense that prescriptivists have said it is for many years. I think that to describe a usage that is natural and normal in speech to a large minority of the population, and which is appearing in magazines and radio and TV programmes aimed at the large minority, as 'poor English' is subjectively judgemental.

I wince at it myself, but then I am a shall/will and whom user in my private life.

I agree that we do need to tell learners that 'me and my friends' is not accepted as correct by many teachers and examination boards, but I don't think it is any more 'poor English' than such things as.


Who's there? It's me.
Who are you talking to?
To boldly go ...
I didn't use to like it.

 

[emsr2d2]

And there was me trying to avoid using "incorrect" or "not correct" or "not accepted as correct" by diplomatically saying "poor English". Sometimes I just can't win! :roll:

 

[Raymott]

What do you define this part of Swan's claim?

You really need to be citing page numbers, and preferably edition, so that we can what else he says.

 

[Raymott]

I think it's relatively well-accepted that poor or substandard language use (English or otherwise) can lead to obstacles in education, jobs, promotions, etc. This isn't subjective. I'd wager that "Me and me mates go fishing" as a reply to a question about the person's interests in an interview would not increase the chances of that person getting a clerical job or a scholarship.
The more liberal amongst us might think that unfair, but that doesn't make it not so.

 

[Freeguy]

Look at these pages from the third edition (fully revised):
Section 428 - part 3 - page 403
Section 429 - part 1- page 404
Section 429- part 3- page 405

 

[MikeNewYork]

Michael Swan aside, for me it is just incorrect. People can use that construction at their own risk.

Me and Jimmy are going to the park, in some cases, has turned into Me and Jimmy be going to the park. Next will be Me and Jimmy be going to park.