I hung here for almost a minute

[EngLearner]

A is hanging from the roof of a one-story house. B comes up to A, and A says to B: "I've hung for almost half a minute. Bring me a ladder. Quick!" After B brings A a ladder, and A steps on it (A is now standing on the ladder), the following dialog takes place between them:

B: "Are you okay?"
A: "Yes, but my hands hurt. I hung here for almost a minute."

Can "I've hung" be used here instead of "I hung"?

 

[emsr2d2]

No. You said that A is now standing on the ladder so he is no longer hanging. If the hanging is over, the simple past is appropriate.

 

[EngLearner]

I remember asking about a similar example on another forum. Here's the scenario (let's designate it scenario #2, and let's designate what's written in post #1 as scenario #1):

John stays up late and works until 3:00am, then he goes to bed. He wakes up at 6:00am, and while he's getting ready for work, his wife thinks to herself:

1. He's barely slept three hours. I'm worried for his health.
2. He barely slept three hours. I'm worried for his health.

I was told that if he's just only woken up, then sentence #1 should be used (note that he's no longer asleep when she thinks this). If, after he's woken up, he gets up, puts his shoes on and goes to the bathroom in order to brush his teeth, then, after all those actions happen, sentence #2 should be used (even if they all happen very quickly, say in less than a minute).

So, logically, if the present perfect is correct in scenario #2 when he's just woken up, then it should also be correct in scenario #1 when he's just stepped on the ladder. On the other hand, if the simple past works in scenario #1 when he's just stepped on the ladder, then it should also work in scenario #2 when he's just woken up.

I came across scenario #1 here, then I remembered the advice I was given regarding scenario #2, and that caused confusion. Now that @emsr2d2 has answered my question in post #1, I'm even more confused.

@emsr2d2, do you agree with the advice I was given regarding scenario #2?

I would greatly appreciate it if more people could share their views on the two scenarios I've presented.

 

[emsr2d2]

I agree with what you said about the sleeping example. What I failed to point out about post #1 is that the original is, for me, unnatural. At the start of the scenario, with A still hanging from the house, I would expect A to say "I've been hanging for almost half a minute". The use of the past simple for an ongoing situation doesn't work.

 

[jutfrank]

B: "Are you okay?"
A: "Yes, but my hands hurt. I've been hanging here for almost a minute."

The present perfect continuous fits very well here. The present tense is used because the speaker is talking about his present situation. The perfect aspect is used because the speaker is talking about a time frame that stretches up to the present moment, and and the continuous aspect is used because there's an emphasis on the prolonged nature of the action.

What you have to understand is that the sentence does not mean that the speaker is still hanging. There is an implication that that is the case, but the tense/aspect itself does not carry that meaning. This is the source of your confusion, I believe. You must understand that when we use present perfect, we view the time frame as stretching up to the present moment. However, the 'present moment' is purely psychological and not necessarily the end point of the action. If you understand this, there's no confusion.

Let's look at scenario #2:

He's barely slept three hours.

From this, we don't know whether he's still asleep or not. All we know is that the speaker is considering a time frame that stretches up to the present moment of speaking. It's not the action that continues up to the present moment, it's the time frame. This is where so many learners (and teachers!) get it wrong. It's crucial to distinguish between what a particular sentence means and what it implies.

 

[5jj]

It's crucial to distinguish between what a particular sentence means and what it implies.

It's also important to remember, EngLearner, that native speakers do no consciously think about the tenses/aspects we use. The one we use at any given split second is that one that fits the situation as we unconsciously view it then. For exactly the same situation, jutfrank and I might use two different forms.

 

[jutfrank]

It's also important to remember, EngLearner, that native speakers do no consciously think about the tenses/aspects we use. The one we use at any given split second is that one that fits the situation as we unconsciously view it then.

Yes. This is I think largely why learning tense/aspect systems can be such a serious challenge for second language learners. Leaners try to consciously understand rules, and then apply them. This rarely works well.

A better study approach, in my opinion, is to focus most of your conscious efforts on looking at authentic examples of use uttered by native speakers, and then ask yourself why that speaker may have unconsciously selected that particular form. With time, and with enough exposure to natural examples, you'll internalise the selection to an unconscious level.

 

[EngLearner]

What I don't understand is why it's correct to use the simple past "hung" if A has just stopped hanging:

B: "Are you okay?"
A: "Yes, but my hands hurt. I hung here for almost a minute."

Whereas it's incorrect to use the simple past "slept" if John has just stopped sleeping (he's still in bed, but has just opened his eyes):

He barely slept three hours. I'm worried for his health.

That is illogical.

 

[emsr2d2]

Perhaps I misread/misunderstood the sleeping example. If he was still in bed, I'd use "He's barely slept for three hours". If he was up and about, I'd use "He barely slept for three hours".

As I said before, I find the use of the simple past "I hung" in the original example wrong.

 

[EngLearner]

As I said before, I find the use of the simple past "I hung" in the original example wrong.

You said that you find the simple past "I hung" wrong if he's still hanging:

At the start of the scenario, with A still hanging from the house, I would expect A to say "I've been hanging for almost half a minute". The use of the past simple for an ongoing situation doesn't work.

If he's no longer hanging, you said that the simple past "I hung" is correct:

B: "Are you okay?"
A: "Yes, but my hands hurt. I hung here for almost a minute."

You said that A is now standing on the ladder so he is no longer hanging. If the hanging is over, the simple past is appropriate.

 

[emsr2d2]

You said that you find the simple past "I hung" wrong if he's still hanging:

If he's no longer hanging, you said that the simple past "I hung" is correct:

In post #1, I did say that. I think I read "here" as "there". "Here" would be appropriate if he was still hanging. After getting onto the ladder, he would say "I hung/I was hanging there ...".

 

[EngLearner]

At the start of the scenario, with A still hanging from the house, I would expect A to say "I've been hanging for almost half a minute". The use of the past simple for an ongoing situation doesn't work.

Indeed, the simple past "I hung" doesn't work at the start of the scenario. But I think you meant to say that the present perfect "I've hung" doesn't work for you there because "I've hung" is used there originally in post #1:

A is hanging from the roof of a one-story house. B comes up to A, and A says to B: "I've hung for almost half a minute. Bring me a ladder. Quick!"

I'm assuming that because you replaced the present perfect "I've hung" with the present perfect continuous "I've been hanging" in your suggested version in post #4:

At the start of the scenario, with A still hanging from the house, I would expect A to say "I've been hanging for almost half a minute".

 

[EngLearner]

B: "Are you okay?"
A: "Yes, but my hands hurt. I've been hanging here for almost a minute."

What you have to understand is that the sentence does not mean that the speaker is still hanging. There is an implication that that is the case, but the tense/aspect itself does not carry that meaning.

I don't think there's such an implication because both A and B know that A is no longer hanging from the roof. B was the one who brought A the ladder, after all, on which A is now standing.

 

[jutfrank]

I don't think there's such an implication because both A and B know that A is no longer hanging from the roof.

?

Well, if A is no longer hanging there then of course there's no implication. (I'm not sure you've understood my post #7.)

 

[EngLearner]

I may not have understood you correctly. But still how can the logical discrepancy outlined in post #8 be explained?

 

[5jj]

What I don't understand is why it's correct to use the simple past "hung" if A has just stopped hanging:

B: "Are you okay?"
A: "Yes, but my hands hurt. I hung here for almost a minute."

Whereas it's incorrect to use the simple past "slept" if John has just stopped sleeping (he's still in bed, but has just opened his eyes):

He barely slept three hours. I'm worried for his health.

It isn't incorrect. I don't think anybody here has said it is.

I would probably not use the past simple there. That does not mean I am claiming it is incorrect.