[General] supersede

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Silverobama

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Hi.

Are the following sentences idiomatic and grammatical? They're from my notebook but the original source is not known.

1) New ways of thinking superseded older ones.
2) As truth prevails over error, goodness tends to supersede badness.
3) He superseded to name the many other difficulties.


I think 1) and 3) are okay; native speakers will use them. 2) is not and sounds like Chinglish.
 

Rover_KE

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#3 is totally meaningless.

What do you think it means?
 

Silverobama

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#3 is totally meaningless.

What do you think it means?

He refrained from naming the other difficulties, perhaps in completing a task.

I was surprised to learn that 2) is okay.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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Yup. Numbers 1 and 2 are good.

Number 3 is meaningless. You could try:

- He declined . . . .
- He refused . . . .
- He failed . . . .
- He decided . . . .
 
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Silverobama

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What made you think that "supersede" means "refrain from"?

More than a decade ago, when I was still a nigh school student, I wrote down many sentences. At that time I didn't know this place or some other places where I could learn English, I thought the best way to learn it was to copy sentences from Chinese-English dictionaries. I firmly believed that because those dictionaries had editors who are native speakers. Usually when I wrote down the sentences, I added the Chinese meanings to those words or phrases.

I don't know if have listened a tape in PM I sent you a month ago or so. I also mentioned this to you there.
 

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More than a decade ago, when I was still a nigh school student, I wrote down many sentences. At that time I didn't know this place or some other places where I could learn English, I thought the best way to learn it was to copy sentences from Chinese-English dictionaries. I firmly believed that because those dictionaries had editors who are native speakers. Usually when I wrote down the sentences, I added the Chinese meanings to those words or phrases.

I don't know if have listened a tape in PM I sent you a month ago or so. I also mentioned this to you there.

This doesn't answer emsr2d2's question.
 

Silverobama

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This doesn't answer emsr2d2's question.

Usually when I wrote down the sentences, I added the Chinese meanings to those words or phrases.

I don't know how to answer emsr2d2's question then you'll be satisfied with it. Or would you please tell me how I can answer her question?
 

tedmc

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How did supersede become refrain from? Their meanings are quite different. Perhaps, it got changed during the translation to the meaning in Chinese.
 

Silverobama

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As there are so many problems with so many of them, why don't you just abandon the lot? Start again with questions about the English that you see and hear in real life rather than what you thought ten years ago might have been correct/meaningful.

Piscean, if I tell you what I'm doing right now is to learn English in a meaningful way, will you believe me?

The problem has nothing to do with the sentences. I already threw the dictionaries away, seriously. What's tricky is that some of the sentences in those dictionaries are fine, as you can see in some of my threads. Not all of them are wrong, but some.

I don't want to talk about this again. It's meaningless and time-consuming. I might choose to ask the questions elsewhere.
 

emsr2d2

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More than a decade ago, when I was still a nigh school student, I wrote down many sentences. At that time I didn't know this place or some other places where I could learn English, I thought the best way to learn it was to copy sentences from Chinese-English dictionaries. I firmly believed that because those dictionaries had editors who are native speakers. Usually when I wrote down the sentences, I added the Chinese meanings to those words or phrases.

We're all more than well aware of the history of these bizarre sentences but it doesn't answer my question. We want to think that, before you post these random sentences from your notebook on the forum, you spend a good chunk of time looking at them yourself. In the decade or so since you wrote them in your notebook, I imagine your English has improved a lot. Therefore, you probably now have a much better idea of whether the sentences are grammatical or not. More importantly, though, I (and, I think, other responders) would like you to spend time trying to work out what you think each sentence means before you put them here.

When I asked you what you thought sentence 3 meant and you suggested you thought "superseded" meant "refrained from", I reasonably assumed that you had some justification for saying that. I expected you to provide a link to a dictionary definition of "supersede" that would explain how you came to that conclusion. You haven't explained at all how you came to the conclusion. We can now also discount it being a direct translation from Chinese as tedmc has now said that the two have no connection in Chinese either.

From now on, please post no more than one sentence per thread, tell us whether you think it's grammatical and, if/when we ask you what it means, give us an explanation that shows exactly how you came to that understanding.

Edit: While I was spending time writing this response, you were posting the response above saying that you don't want to discuss it any more and you might go elsewhere for help. That is entirely your prerogative, of course, but I would like to think that you will at least take our comments on board.
 

Silverobama

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I don't want to break any rules here, emsr2d2.

But I'd like to explain after reading what you typo above.

Therefore, you probably now have a much better idea of whether the sentences are grammatical or not.

I know it's grammatical. I remember it was you who said we could only tell you whether the sentence is grammatical. I think I've said many times that I just wanted to make sure if those sentences are natural. Then you asked me what "natural" mean and I said "idiomatic". Why not simply tell me not to post such questions again? Then I'll stop.

It's you who think that such questions are not a good way to learn a language, you were not me, how did you know? I wrote down your comments each time and the new and correct sentences you wrote in my new notebook. I learn things like this. I can't use Google all the times, please.

When I asked you what you thought sentence 3 meant and you suggested you thought "superseded" meant "refrained from", I reasonably assumed that you had some justification for saying that. I expected you to provide a link to a dictionary definition of "supersede" that would explain how you came to that conclusion. You haven't explained at all how you came to the conclusion. We can now also discount it being a direct translation from Chinese as tedmc has now said that the two have no connection in Chinese either.

I said already. The Chinese definition of supersede of the third sentence in my notebook is "refrain from". Okay, it was my problem because I didn't translate the word correctly.
 

Charlie Bernstein

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. . . I said already. The Chinese definition of supersede of the third sentence in my notebook is "refrain from". Okay, it was my problem because I didn't translate the word correctly.
Yup. It was just wrong. Now you know. Our definition supersedes your book's definition.
 

emsr2d2

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I said already. The Chinese definition of supersede of the third sentence in my notebook is "refrain from". Okay, it was my problem because I didn't translate the word correctly.

At the very least, I think you should stop looking words up in an English-Chinese (or Chinese-English) dictionary. Use a good standard English dictionary, in which the definitions are written in English.
I'm certainly not going to ask you to stop posting the sentences - it's a public forum and you can post them if you want to. However, I will stick with my request that you post just one sentence at a time. Before you post it, regardless of whether you already believe it to be grammatical, check it closely and look up almost every word in a good dictionary to see if you think it also makes sense.
 

Silverobama

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At the very least, I think you should stop looking words up in an English-Chinese (or Chinese-English) dictionary. Use a good standard English dictionary, in which the definitions are written in English.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion, emsr2d2. I've been doing this for many years, after I found these two forums. I first asked question in another forum and I was told by many other nice people there how to use reliable sources. But let me be clearer again if you haven't read or understood what I'd said. These sentences are from my old notebooks. Many of those sentences, you and other nice people here have corrected, are right. Part of them are wrong. THIS is the reason why I still keep my old notebooks because not all of them are wrong. You were not me, how could you possibly know that I'm not using an English dictionary?

Like I said at least three times, I will NOT post any moer sentences from my notebook again here. Have I made myself clear?
 
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