The Honorable

[remington1969]

Hi, there,

I understand the meaning of the word honorable, but one day I read a public letter on line, it was one MP of Canada addressed to another MP, at the end of the letter, the addresser called himself "The Honorable xxx xxx".
I am confused here, can somebody call himself honorable? it's a mistake or what?
thank you for your reply.

 

[White Hat]

May we see that letter? I've found this online: "One never uses the The Honorable when saying or writing one’s own name. So – never as the host on an invitation, never when signing one’s name, and never when introducing yourself."

 

[White Hat]

Here's another interesting piece of information that may be helpful. ("The Prime Minister of Canada retains the title 'The Right Honourable' for life.")

At the end of this letter, Justin Trudeau uses the following wording: 'The Rt. Hon. Justin P. J. Trudeau, P.C., M.P. Prime Minister of Canada'.

 

[Barque]

can somebody call himself honorable? it's a mistake or what?

It's part of his official title. He isn't describing his character. It's "The Honourable" and not "honourable".

 

[probus]

In Canada members of parliament are addresed as "the honourable" and the prime minister as "the right honourable". Doubtless we got this custom from our former colonial masters, the British, but I don't know whether it is still followed in the UK.

By the way, it doesn't mean that we think they ARE honourable; it's merely a formality like calling a man sir or a woman madam.

 

[SoothingDave]

I always found it amusing to watch the UK Parliament with the question time with the Prime Minister.

Even when basically insulting each other, they still refer to each other as "The Right Honourable Gentleman."

 

[probus]

It's the same in the US Congress. My current favourite is the one they refer to as "the gentlelady from Georgia", whose initials are MTG.

 

[remington1969]

May we see that letter? I've found this online: "One never uses the The Honorable when saying or writing one’s own name. So – never as the host on an invitation, never when signing one’s name, and never when introducing yourself."

Press Releases | Senator Yuen Pau Woo

senatoryuenpauwoo.ca

This is the link, see all the way to the bottom.

Thank you.

 

[Barque]

Yes, it's part of his official title, and the letter's an official one.

I believe some members of the British aristocracy also have the title "Honourable" but that's a social title and I doubt they'd use it while signing a letter.

 

[remington1969]

It's part of his official title. He isn't describing his character. It's "The Honourable" and not "honourable".

So, official title, The Honorable, not describing his character, honorable. But we know the word "Honorable" implies the character of honorable, graceful, credit, etc., In this case, even the person has the title of Honorable, shall he/her be humble not to mention it when address to somebody else?
Because this title is not like other titles, say president or manager, which have nothing to do with the character of the person.

this is my thought.

 

[SoothingDave]

It has nothing to do with the character of the person.

 

[emsr2d2]

So no comma here the official title, The Honorable, not describing does not describe his character no comma here as honorable. But However, we know that the word "Honorable" implies the character of an honorable, graceful, credit, etc character. In this case, even though the person has the title of "Honorable", shall he/her would it be humble of them not to mention it when addressing to somebody else?
Because This title is not like other titles, say "president" or "manager", which have nothing to do with the character of the person.

This is my thought what I think.

Please note my corrections above. I don't understand what you meant by "credit" (the underlined word).

 

[emsr2d2]

Hi no comma here there. Unnecessary. Just go straight in with your post.

I understand the meaning of the word "honorable" no comma here but one day I read a public letter online. It was written by one MP of Canada a Canadian MP and was addressed to another MP. At the end of the letter, the addresser writer called himself "The Honorable xxx xxx".
I am confused here. Can somebody call himself "honorable? it's Is it a mistake? or what?

Thank you for your reply. Unnecessary. Thank us after we help you, by adding the "Thanks" icon to any response you find helpful.

Please note my corrections and comments above.

 

[Barque]

But we know the word "Honorable" implies the character of honorable, graceful, credit, etc., In this case, even the person has the title of Honorable, shall he/her be humble not to mention it when address to somebody else?

The word "honourable" is a complimentary word, and therefore started to be used as a title for some important people. The original idea of course was that those people were supposed to be honourable people. But it's also just a title and, with use, has just become a prefix, like "President". It doesn't mean that the person is honourable (though that might have been the idea when the practice started).

In this case, even the person has the title of Honorable, shall he/her be humble not to mention it when address to somebody else?

It's not a question of humility.

If it's a part of your official job title, you can mention it, just as a General (which is a high rank) in the army would call himself "General XYZ" while writing an official letter. He wouldn't think "I won't refer to myself as General because it wouldn't sound humble".

Similarly a member of parliament who has that title doesn't think to himself/herself, "I should be humble and not use the word". They just use it.

But if it's a "social" title (as I said above, I believe some high ranking members of the British aristocracy are referred to with "The Honourable" before their names), I don't think they'd use it when referring to themselves. This is similar to the way I wouldn't use "Mr." while introducing myself to someone, but another person might use "Mr." before my name to introduce me to someone.

 

[jutfrank]

It's an honorific title. Addressing people this way shows respect for their position, not for their character.

Honorific - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Skrej]

"Honorable"is used in the US as well as part of a judge's official title.

Any court session is brought to order by a bailiff announcing the court's name and stating that the Honorable Judge so-and-so is presiding. Lawyers will address the judge as "Your Honor" as well.

Granted it's from a TV comedy, but this scene shows a bailiff calling the court to order.

 

[remington1969]

It's an honorific title. Addressing people this way shows respect for their position, not for their character.

Honorific - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I understand this part, my question was, can people use "The Honorable" to address themselves?

 

[emsr2d2]

I understand this part. My question was, "Can people use "The Honorable" to address refer to themselves?"

Did you read post #2? I suspect there's no one on this forum who's an MP or is regularly in correspondence with an MP so, like you, we have only the information we find online to rely on.

 

[Barque]

I understand this part, my question was, can people use "The Honorable" to address themselves?

It depends on what sort of title it is--a job title or a social one. As the letter you linked to in #8 shows, Canadian MPs can and do use it to refer to themselves. (They don't address themselves by it--you can only address someone else.)

 

[emsr2d2]

According to www.gov.uk, this is the situation with "The Honourable" as courtesy titles:

The younger sons of earls, along with all sons and daughters of viscounts, barons and lords of parliament are accorded the courtesy style of “The Honourable” before their name. This is usually abbreviated to “The Hon.” The title persists after the death of the holder’s father, but it may not be inherited by the holder’s children. It is used only in third person reference, not in speaking to the person.

That certainly makes it clear that someone wouldn't use it to refer to themselves. It's interesting that it also wouldn't be used when addressing the person direct, only when talking about them.

@Barque You're right that post #2 wasn't about MPs but I didn't make my last post clear. I should have separated the question about post #2 from my comment that we're all having to rely on the internet for our info with regard to this entire thread.