Forum newsfeeds
Forum Newsfeeds


Sites for Teachers

Sites for Teachers


Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > English ESL Questions > Advanced
Register FAQDonate Members List Mark Forums Read Tags

Poll: In which conditional can 'if' be replaced with 'should'?
Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.
Poll Options
In which conditional can 'if' be replaced with 'should'?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14-Sep-2003, 21:21
Editor, UsingEnglish.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: UK
Location: Phnom Penh
First Language: English
Posts: 24,929
Thanks: 1
Thanked 154 Times in 151 Posts
Tdol has disabled reputation
Default Conditionals

Does it change the meaning?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 16:13
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Spain
Posts: 135
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dduck
Default

Just curious, do Americans use this construction:

Should you want it, I'll have it ready for you.

I missvoted. This is the first conditional. :D

Does it change the meaning? Not sure, I never use this construction.

Iain
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 18:42
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: USA
Location: North Carolina
First Language: English
Posts: 11,760
Thanks: 24
Thanked 234 Times in 220 Posts
RonBee has a spectacular aura aboutRonBee has a spectacular aura aboutRonBee has a spectacular aura about
Default

Question: In which conditional can 'if' be replaced with 'should'?
Answer: Well, it's not the zero conditional. However, while you can't use should with the zero conditional, you can use when. (You can also make a zero conditional statement using either should or when.)

Examples:
  • If you heat water to 100 degrees Celsius, it boils.
    When you heat water to 100 degrees Celsius, it boils.
    Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius.

What do you think?

:)

[Edited for spelling.]
__________________
~R
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 20:21
Editor, UsingEnglish.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: UK
Location: Phnom Penh
First Language: English
Posts: 24,929
Thanks: 1
Thanked 154 Times in 151 Posts
Tdol has disabled reputation
Default

Some people argue that the zero conditional isn't a true conditional because 'when' can be used in place of 'if'.

In BE, we do replace 'if' with 'should' in the first conditional and it seems to reduce the probability of the condition being met, like a halfway house to the second conditional.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 20:44
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: USA
Location: North Carolina
First Language: English
Posts: 11,760
Thanks: 24
Thanked 234 Times in 220 Posts
RonBee has a spectacular aura aboutRonBee has a spectacular aura aboutRonBee has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdol
Some people argue that the zero conditional isn't a true conditional because 'when' can be used in place of 'if'.
But it is, isn't it? After all, a specified condition must be met before a specified result can occur. (If the water does not reach 100 degrees Celsius it does not boil.) BTW, I meant to ask (but forgot to) is why is it called a zero conditional?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdol
In BE, we do replace 'if' with 'should' in the first conditional and it seems to reduce the probability of the condition being met, like a halfway house to the second conditional.
It's interesting that you said that. I was considering disagreeing with myself. How about:
  • Should water reach 100 degrees Celsius it will boil. (If it doesn't it won't, but should it do so it will.)

What do you think?

:)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 21:26
Editor, UsingEnglish.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: UK
Location: Phnom Penh
First Language: English
Posts: 24,929
Thanks: 1
Thanked 154 Times in 151 Posts
Tdol has disabled reputation
Default

Should water reach 100 degrees Celsius it will boil. (If it doesn't it won't, but should it do so it will.)


That takes it into the first conditional. It's called the zero conditional, I believe, because the link is automatic.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 22:21
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: USA
Location: North Carolina
First Language: English
Posts: 11,760
Thanks: 24
Thanked 234 Times in 220 Posts
RonBee has a spectacular aura aboutRonBee has a spectacular aura aboutRonBee has a spectacular aura about
Default

No should for the zero conditional then. I will just have to agree with myself.

:wink:
__________________
~R
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 15-Sep-2003, 23:09
Editor, UsingEnglish.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: UK
Location: Phnom Penh
First Language: English
Posts: 24,929
Thanks: 1
Thanked 154 Times in 151 Posts
Tdol has disabled reputation
Default

It sounds like a good idea.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 22-Sep-2003, 11:30
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 429
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
whl626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBee
No should for the zero conditional then. I will just have to agree with myself.

:wink:
I have come across ' should ' being added for a matter of probability.

eg We will not go if it rains. Or We will not go if it should rain.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 22-Sep-2003, 20:02
Editor, UsingEnglish.com
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: UK
Location: Phnom Penh
First Language: English
Posts: 24,929
Thanks: 1
Thanked 154 Times in 151 Posts
Tdol has disabled reputation
Default

That's fine, but you would find it hard to do that in a zero conditional as they express certainty not probability. )
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply
Tags:




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Conditionals Anonymous Ask a Teacher 10 07-Feb-2007 09:01
Two 2nd conditionals! milky General Language Discussions 2 23-Jul-2004 13:38
Mixed Conditionals Red5 General Language Discussions 1 18-Nov-2003 01:34
Conditionals abrilsp Ask a Teacher 1 05-Nov-2003 03:41
Mixed conditionals Anonymous Ask a Teacher 1 08-Oct-2003 21:28


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:26.



vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0
Copyright © 2002 - 2008 UsingEnglish.com