next fall vs. this fall

[LQZ]

1 The Pentagon is helping Afghan officials arrange to start seeking bids on mineral rights by next fall, officials said.
2 A public meeting to discuss the salmon may be held as early as this fall.

Hi, teacher,

These two sentences are taken from articles published in June, 2010 at the New York Times and both next fall and this fall are refering to autumn in 2010. My question is, are they interchangable in these two examples without changing meanings?

1 The Pentagon is helping Afghan officials arrange to start seeking bids on mineral rights by next fall/ this fall, officials said.
2 A public meeting to discuss the salmon may be held as early as this fall/ next fall.

Thanks.


LQZ

[LQZ]

I suppose that one would have to read both articles, but I do not see them as being the same time. Next fall is the fall of 2011 and this fall is the fall of 2010.

Thank you, Gillnetter.

You may understand why I have trouble with these two phrases if you have a look at the following reply from a native speaker when I asked what next fall meant.

The date of the article is June 13, 2010.
Next fall refers to fall of 2010 ("fall of next year" would be fall of 2011).

Could you please explain further to me? Thanks again.

[Abstract Idea]

have a look at the following reply from a native speaker when I asked what next fall meant.

The date of the article is June 13, 2010.
Next fall refers to fall of 2010 ("fall of next year" would be fall of 2011).

I agree with that anonymous answer regarding the interpretation of "next fall".

If it is not yet fall, "this fall" and "next fall" mean the same. But the expression "this fall" somehow emphasizes that fall is near, about to come. On the other hand, when you say "next fall", it looks like next fall is further in the calendar. But this is a subjective interpretation, logically they mean the same (if it is not fall yet.)

[LQZ]

These types of terms always seem to cause problems, even with people who speak English as a native language. "Next fall" does appear to mean the following fall. If I told you in January that I would meet you next fall, I would expect to see you in eight months. If I told you in June that I would meet you next fall, I would expect to see you in the fall of 2011. If I said that I would see you in the fall, I would expect to see you in the fall of this year. The way I get around the problem of which fall a person is talking about is to ask for a specific date. This is not possible when you are reading an article. In this case I hope that the writer gave sufficient clues as to the fall in question.

Thanks, Gillnetter. That quite hleps. I've got it.

[jiaruchan]

Hello, LQZ:

I remember posting a thread asking what 'next Sunday' means if today is Friday, two days away or nine days away. All replied it should be nine days away.

For the same token, I do believe there is no problem understanding what 'this fall' means. However, given that the article you read came out earlier this month, like our Californian friend has said, I probably would tend to understand 'next fall' to be 'the fall of 2011'. Logically, it could be more true since you can't expect the regime in Afghanistan to be very efficient in starting up a job like that, although that is totally my guess.

[LQZ]

Hello, LQZ:

I remember posting a thread asking what 'next Sunday' means if today is Friday, two days away or nine days away. All replied it should be nine days away.

For the same token, I do believe there is no problem understanding what 'this fall' means. However, given that the article you read came out earlier this month, like our Californian friend has said, I probably would tend to understand 'next fall' to be 'the fall of 2011'. Logically, it could be more true since you can't expect the regime in Afghanistan to be very efficient in starting up a job like that, although that is totally my guess.

Thank you, jiaruchan. What I originally understood is what you said, but I was muddled in mind after getting the reply. I, however, can't complain since he tended to give a hand.

Thanks again!

[Abstract Idea]

Hello, LQZ:

I remember posting a thread asking what 'next Sunday' means if today is Friday, two days away or nine days away. All replied it should be nine days away.

Do you know the link to that thread jiaruchan?
What about if today is Thursday instead of Friday?

Thanks for your important contribution relating to the possible misinterpretation of "next" jiaruchan. Connecting to the present thread, I ask: what about "this Sunday" instead of "next Sunday"? If it is Friday "this Sunday" refers to what ?

[jiaruchan]

Do you know the link to that thread jiaruchan?
What about if today is Thursday instead of Friday?

Thanks for your important contribution relating to the possible misinterpretation of "next" jiaruchan. Connecting to the present thread, I ask: what about "this Sunday" instead of "next Sunday"? If it is Friday "this Sunday" refers to what ?

Hello, ymnisky:

I have retrieved the thread for you. However, my memory did not serve me right, which means what I stated earlier about all those replies did have different and conflicting opinions rather than a uniform answer. Check it out:
http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...xt-sunday.html

[TheParser]

Hi, teacher,

These two sentences are taken from articles published in June, 2010 at the New York Times and both next fall and this fall are refering to autumn in 2010. My question is, are they interchangable in these two examples without changing meanings?



Thanks.


LQZ

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, LQZ.

(1) If (If!!!) I understand Mr. Michael Swan correctly, he explains this in

section 367 of his Practical English Grammar (1995 edition).

(2) It is now summer. If you feel that fall is still far away, then "next

fall" refers to the fall in 2010.

(3) If you feel that fall is pretty close, then "next fall" refers to the

fall in 2011.

(4) He says there is a period of about three months between what is "far"

and what is "close." If you are talking about the days of the week,

he says that the period of time is about 3 days.



(5) He says that, of course, you could avoid all misunderstanding by

saying "this coming fall."

***** Thank you for your question *****