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Thread: a or no a, that is the question!

  1. #11
    keannu is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: a or no a, that is the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    Part of the problem may be that some dictionaries label nouns as 'countable/count' or 'uncountable/non-count'. It would be more helpful to say that some nouns are used mainly with an uncountable sense, others with a countable sense.

    If you encounter a noun in a plural form, or with 'a' in front of it then it is being used in a countable sense. This is true of most 'mass' noun.

    It is true that there are a few nouns which are (almost) never used in a countable sense, even though their equivalents in other languages may be. 'advice, information, news, furniture' are examples of such words. 'Accommodation' and 'training' were in this group, but they appear to be changing.
    Thanks a lot for your kind explanation, but I have some more questions.
    I've always learned from my Korean grammar books that abstract nouns(beauty) or mass nouns(coffee) can be converted to a common noun(She was a beauty or I drank a coffee).

    So after conversion, are they treated as a common noun? But I guess as you said, I don't have to focus on the conversion, just heeding to the fact they converted from uncountable to countable still belonging to abstract or mass nouns. Am I right?

  2. #12
    freezeframe is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: a or no a, that is the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Thanks a lot for your kind explanation, but I have some more questions.
    I've always learned from my Korean grammar books that abstract nouns(beauty) or mass nouns(coffee) can be converted to a common noun(She was a beauty or I drank a coffee).

    So after conversion, are they treated as a common noun? But I guess as you said, I don't have to focus on the conversion, just heeding to the fact they converted from uncountable to countable still belonging to abstract or mass nouns. Am I right?
    Some uncountable nouns can also be countable when used with a different meaning. Not all though. I don't think that, for example, happiness or despair can be countable.

    Beauty is uncountable when it refers to the quality of being beautiful.
    Beauty is countable when it refers to a beautiful woman.

    It's not that it's converted from uncountable to countable but that it means something (slightly) different.

    I don't know how helpful it is to think of that as conversion. The ESL teaching experts might be able to comment on that.

  3. #13
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    5jj is online now Moderator
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    Default Re: a or no a, that is the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by freezeframe View Post
    I don't know how helpful it is to think of that as conversion. The ESL teaching experts might be able to comment on that.
    I don't think it's 'conversion'.

    The word 'coffee' can be used by speakers of English to refer to many things, including: the plant; the beans that grow on the plant; the sacks containg those beans; the powder made from those beans for the instant drink; the drink in general; a specific container of the beans, powder or drink; and types of any of these things. We see some of these things as being countable units, others not.

    It's not that the word 'converts'; it's rather that the single word can refer to different things. If other languages use the equivalent word for 'coffee' in the same way, there would be no problem. Unfortunately, words in one language rarely mean exactly the same as their equivalent in any other language.
    keannu likes this.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: a or no a, that is the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    What I'm going to write is only an insight from a non-native speaker's point of view gained from the experience of reading, writing, speaking, hearing, seeing and sometimes thinking English.
    Since there are a lot of different containers you can use with drinks, I'd go for saying that the indefinite article used with drinks means, roughly speaking, one (container of).
    As for sugar, I want a sugar = I want one (teaspoon/lump of) sugar.
    Obviously, if we want to be more precise, we need to use the specific terms for particular containers in any context.
    A brilliant addition as always, engee30.

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    Default Re: a or no a, that is the question!

    Hi, there.
    I've learned from the posts above that we may say I'll have chicken but when people are at restaurant they'd use rather the "some" determinative, wouldn't they? As for me I'll have chicken would be accurate if, for example, some tradesman buys a bunch of chicken, so he made a decision to buy chicken not mutton.
    Please, correct me if I'm wrong here.
    Thank you.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: a or no a, that is the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexAD View Post
    Hi, there.
    I've learned from the posts above that we may say I'll have chicken but when people are at restaurant they'd use rather the "some" determinative, wouldn't they?
    This is a response only to the part of your post quoted above.

    In a restaurant, I would say to the waiter, "I'll have (the) chicken". I might previously have said to my co-diners, "I think I'll have some/the/- chicken".

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