I'd had had

[bhaussie]

Hello,

As a native english speaker, I'd like further clarification on this example sentence please:

"If I'd had had my credit card with me, I'd have bought the coat."

My question pertains directly to the use of "I'd had had" and whether this is grammatically correct. Furthermore, if it is indeed acceptable, would removing the apostrophe and creating "I had had had" (that's three "had"s) be allowable?

I considered the "I'd" to be "I would", however I consider that would be incorrect as to include "would" would be reconstructed as "If I would've had my credit card..." where the "would've" is abbreviated from "would have".

I'd appreciate it if possible, to please relate your answer to the sentence with grammatical terms defining the usage of how the "had"s apply in the sentence (i.e. why is one had not sufficient eg. "If I had my credit card...").

The initial example sentence was taken from a page link in this forum discussing conditional sentences, unfortunately I cannot link to it as I have less than the required posts.


Cheers

[5jj]

As a native english speaker, I'd like further clarification on this example sentence please:

"If I'd had had my credit card with me, I'd have bought the coat."

My question pertains directly to the use of "I'd had had" and whether this is grammatically correct.
It is not.

2nd condition - If I had my card, I would buy.
3rd condition - If I had had my card, I would have bought.

[TheParser]

[QUOTE=bhaussie;805976]Hello,

As a native english speaker, I'd like further clarification on this example sentence please:

ONLY A NON-TEACHER'S OPINION

(1) Like you, I am also a native speaker who needs "further clarification" about many

things, so I really enjoy reading the posts from outstanding teachers such as

Fivejedjon.

(2) I just wanted to add two comments:

(a) I think that many of us native speakers say something like:

If I would have had time, I would have come to your party.

(i) My teachers told me that it is incorrect. It should be:

If I had had time, I would have come to your party.

(a) Some native speakers feel that saying "had had" sounds "funny,"

so they (correctly) use a contraction: If I'd had time, I would have come to

your party. (Now everyone is happy: teachers are happy because we used

"had had," and we are happy because we did not have to say "had had.")

[5jj]

Just a couple of personal comments on that, Parser:

(1) Like you, I am also a native speaker who needs "further clarification" about many things, so I really enjoy reading the posts from outstanding teachers such as Fivejedjon. Actually, I do take an arrogant pride in my understanding of some of the finer points of grammar [with the notable exception of 'labelling'] but, probably as a result of this, I think that I am a pretty lousy teacher. That's not false modesty - I think that my obsession with grammar has burdened my students with too much concern with grammar. The job of English teachers, I feel, should be to enable students to communicate in English, not to have a good theoretical knowledge of the grammar.

(2) I just wanted to add two comments:

(a) I think that many of us native speakers say something like:

If I would have had time, I would have come to your party.

(i) My teachers told me that it is incorrect. It should be:

If I had had time, I would have come to your party.

Ths is a good example of what I was talking about above. 'If I would have come' makes me cringe - but it's perfectly acceptable to most of the Americans I have met. So, in speech at least, it must be acceptable in AmE, regardless of my personal feelings.

(a) Some native speakers feel that saying "had had" sounds "funny," so they (correctly) use a contraction: If I'd had time, I would have come to your party. (Now everyone is happy: teachers are happy because we used "had had," and we are happy because we did not have to say "had had.")

And, of course, the contracted form is far more common and natural. So much so, that I sometimes think that we ought to say that 'if I had had' is uncommon.

[emsr2d2]

I would say "If I had had my credit card with me..." though when speaking I would contract the first "I had" to "I'd" giving "If I'd had my credit card..."

The original that you posted "If I'd had had..." effectively means "If I had had had..." which is clearly incorrect.