The usage of "distaff"

[birdeen's call]

I don't know if anybody is interested but I have been trying to find out how common the "distaff" metaphor was across Europe.

In my language, every person has two lineages: the distaff (kądziel) and the sword (miecz). The distinction must have been adopted by the English language too, at some point -- dictionaries recognize "the sword side", although prefer to call it "the spear side". The French have "tomber en quenouille", which originally meant fall (from the lance) to the distaff (pass into the female line).

"le royaume de France ne saurait tomber de lance en quenouille"

For German, I've found this:

The Germanic Sippe extended as far as relationship [...]. Though Germanic law recognized both relatives through males and through females [...], only the former, or relatives by the lance or by the sword, "Speer, und Schwertmagen," made part of the "Sippe"; the relatives by the distaff or the spindle, "Spill-, Kunkelmagen"; were not included.

A History of French Public Law by Jean Brissaud

Danish has/used to have it too but that's all I've found.

I was unable to find any evidence that it was present in Latin but I think it must have been...

[BobSmith]

What kills me is that there are some people who think this passes for good writing!

Knowing that Kevin Smith purportedly wrote this, it seems to be rather tongue-in-cheek, or at least wink to his readers, or perhaps even self-referential (though IIRC he is married).

[BobK]

I don't know if anybody is interested but I have been trying to find out how common the "distaff" metaphor was across Europe.

...

Thanks It's just occurred to me that, given the non-figurative meaning of 'distaff', the term 'spinster' (unmarried woman - a bit archaic, and not very PC, but preserved in the practice of the readin g of Banns of marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , in the words [from the Book of Common Prayer] 'spinster of this parish') must have something to do with all this.

b

[BobK]

I also had to look up the word "onanist" having never heard or read it before. As the others have said, if the subject were to come up (no pun intended ), I would expect to hear or use "masturbate" or "masturbator" although the latter is certainly less common.

In answer to birdeen's question about it being necessarily male, I can't find a definition which specifies a gender. I imagine that it is used to refer to a male the majority of the time, but if "onanism" simply means "masturbation" without specifying a method or a particular body part, then there is no reason why it shouldn't apply to a female too.

Incidentally, this discussion reminds me of the minefield of international marketing. The Toyota MR2 wasn't, in France, called 'M-R-Deux' which - though an M-word (or rather an emm- word) - isn't our M-word. But they had to rename the Mitsubishi Pajero for the Spanish market, because pajero is - or, if the noun doesn't exist (my Spanish isn't up-to-date), it looks very like a back-formation from the verb hacerse la paja.

b

[JohnParis]

I was unable to find any evidence that it was present in Latin but I think it must have been...

I too was completely unfamiliar with the word before seeing it used here, and I began researching its origins.
The Oxford dictionary provides the following: ORIGIN, Old English distæf: the first element is apparently related to Middle Low German dise, disene ‘distaff, bunch of flax’ ; the second is staff 1 . The extended sense arose because spinning was traditionally done by women.
I'd also be willing to wager that some similar sort of metaphor could be found in Latin.
John

[birdeen's call]

I too was completely unfamiliar with the word before seeing it used here, and I began researching its origins.
The Oxford dictionary provides the following: ORIGIN, Old English distæf: the first element is apparently related to Middle Low German dise, disene ‘distaff, bunch of flax’ ; the second is staff 1 . The extended sense arose because spinning was traditionally done by women.
I'd also be willing to wager that some similar sort of metaphor could be found in Latin.
John

I have found some examples but they don't look very convincing to me so I'll have to dig deeper. One is this

Feudum Colus, Gall. Fief de quenouille, Quod inter feminas partitur. Lit. remiss. ann. 1366. in Reg. 97. Chartoph. reg. ch. 644 :

Icellui Michiel advocat en la ville de Rouen avoit dit à la dame de Gargoulay que elle avoit droit, et que c'estoit Fief de Quenoulles qui se devoit partir.

les Bénédictins de St. Maur, 1733-1736.

But the quotation is French. "Feudum colus" gives no more hits in a Google search. ("Colus" is Latin for distaff).

Here, "feudum colus" is just called "feudum femininum". However, the German term is literally "distaff-fief":

Kunkellehen
Kunkellehen (v. mhd. kunkel = Spinnrocken, aus mlat. conucula = Kegelchen, Spinnwirtel; auch Schleier-, Spindellehen; lat. feudum femininum)

[TheParser]

Incidentally, this discussion reminds me of the minefield of international marketing.

b

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


I understand that quite a few years ago, American car manufacturers were wondering

why one of their models was not selling in Mexico. The car was named the NOVA!

(As many of you know, "no va" in Spanish means "It does not go.")

[BobSmith]

FYI, "no va" literally means "it doesn't go" but in usage means "it doesn't work" (for machines) - even worse!

[BobK]

FYI, "no va" literally means "it doesn't go" but in usage means "it doesn't work" (for machines) - even worse!

Well yes, but I'm not really sure about this story, because Mexicans are not notably heedless of stress No va is stressed on the second syllable.

{Etymological note: if 'Nova' were stressed on the first syllable, it would become 'Nueva'. Spanish speakers may not 'know' that a stressed 'o' becomes 'ue', but they readily - and without thought, or awareness of the process - convert a word such as bueno to its diminutive bonito. Or to look at it the other way, given the pair bueno/bonito they wouldn't fail to reognize that they were related .}

b