Until after

[keannu]

When you say "until after sth", is it quite different from "Not until sth"? "Not until" refers to the point of something, but how far after does "until after sth" usually mean? Maybe specifying time scale may be meaningless.

ex)Until after World War II, only the very wealthy and the famous enjoyed the benefits of worldwide leisure travel. It was considered too expensive by most, especially compared to what else could be done with the money spent on a trip.....

st-20.2

[JMurray]

When you say "until after sth", is it quite different from "Not until sth"? "Not until" refers to the point of something, but how far after does "until after sth" usually mean? Maybe specifying time scale may be meaningless.

ex)Until after World War II, only the very wealthy and the famous enjoyed the benefits of worldwide leisure travel.

"Until after WWII…" means the changes took place during the years immediately following the end of the war. It doesn't necessarily mean the changes started as soon as the war finished, but that the war acts as a useful marker for various reasons.

not a teacher

[BobSmith]

[not a teacher]

To me, "not until" marks a starting point, as you've stated.

Not until World War II did only the very wealthy and the famous enjoyed the benefits of worldwide leisure travel.

This means that at around the start of WWII, those people started enjoying the benefits.

[keannu]

When you say "until after sth", is it quite different from "Not until sth"? "Not until" refers to the point of something, but how far after does "until after sth" usually mean? Maybe specifying time scale may be meaningless.

ex)Until after World War II, only the very wealthy and the famous enjoyed the benefits of worldwide leisure travel.

"Until after WWII…" means the changes took place during the years immediately following the end of the war. It doesn't necessarily mean the changes started as soon as the war finished, but that the war acts as a useful marker for various reasons.

not a teacher

Thanks alot, but can you tell me what the difference is between "after WWII" and "until after WWII" is?

[Raymott]

When you say "until after sth", is it quite different from "Not until sth"? "Not until" refers to the point of something, but how far after does "until after sth" usually mean? Maybe specifying time scale may be meaningless.

ex)Until after World War II, only the very wealthy and the famous enjoyed the benefits of worldwide leisure travel. It was considered too expensive by most, especially compared to what else could be done with the money spent on a trip.....

st-20.2

Yes, maybe the time scale is meaningless.
I can say, "It was not until after WWII that there was large scale migration to Australia from southern Europe." I know it happened largely in the 50s, maybe late 40s. We were at war with Italy in WWII, so we wouldn't have been accepting immigrants during the war. Therefore, it must have been post-war. Since I can't narrow down the time any further without going to Google, I can just say, "It wasn't until after WWII ..."

[5jj]

Not until World War II, only the very wealthy and the famous enjoyed the benefits of worldwide leisure travel.

This means that at around the start of WWII, those people started enjoying the benefits.

That sentence is not natural to me. With the sense interpretation you have suggested, I would say:

Not until World War II did the very wealthy and the famous enjoy ...
The very wealthy and the famous did not enjoy ... until World War II.

If we are talking about the actual situation, then we would say, with a clearly different meaning:

Until after World War II, only the very wealthy and the famous emjoyed ...
Not until after World War II did the less wealthy (begin to) enjoy ...

[BobSmith]

Oops, cut and paste error, I have fixed my original reply.