neede to do vs needed to have done

[ostap77]

A) Did you do your homework you needed to do for today's class?

B) Did you do your homework you needed to have done for today's class?

1)What would be the difference in meaning between the two sentences?

" What grounds did we have for removing him? " Mr. Maloney asked. " He needed to have done certain things wrong, to have violated rules and regulations. "

Is "needed to have done" here close in meaning to " must have done"?

[Bennevis]

" What grounds did we have for removing him? " Mr. Maloney asked. " He needed to have done certain things wrong, to have violated rules and regulations. "

Is "needed to have done" here close in meaning to " must have done"?

No, it's rather not.
"must have done" implies a strong possibility, whereas "needed to have done" here implies the person could be removed if he had done "certain things wrong" and "violated rules and regulations".

[ostap77]

Doesn't the first part "What grounds........" suggest that there could have been grounds for removing him? You kind of skiped my first question.

[Bennevis]

- How can we remove him?
- Well, he needs to have done something wrong.
- Like what?
- We need him to violate some rules and regulations.
- Is it that simple?
- I guess.

[Bennevis]

You kind of skipPed my first question.

Both are grammatically correct, although I wouldn't use the 2nd one - it's too clunky for an idea that simple.

[ostap77]

Would there be a difference between "he needed to do something wrong" and "needed to have done something wrong"?

[Bennevis]

Would there be a difference between "he needed to do something wrong" and "needed to have done something wrong"?

If he needed to do something wrong, then he was some kind of a bad boy - he would feel great beating someone up or breaking something.

If he needed to have done something wrong, there may have been an imperious reason for that. For instance, in jail he would move up the hierachical ladder if he had done something wrong in the street.

[ostap77]

What about post#1 question 1? I've been waiting for an answer since morning.

What about this sentence " I was torn. I didn't know what to do. I know what it feels like to be hurting for money and in bad shape. We're in the same position, my family. So I felt I needed to do something."? Again any differnce with "needed to have done something" here?

[Bennevis]

Yes, there is. He needed to do something (get a job, work, make money) - something in the nearest future.
You can say He needed to have his homework done.

Why are you struggling with this? It's not worth it. There is a slight difference between those. I hope if you've read my explanations above you'll get the idea without a hitch.

[ostap77]

It's alwasy been worth doing it otherwise I wouldn't be learning English. So there wouldn't be any difference, if I substituted "needed to have done" for "needed to do"?