True or False

[5jj]

I'm getting a little bit confused here.

That is not surprising. This often happens when we get round to labelling.

First of all you need to accept that labels are simply attempts to fit words, phrases and clauses into manageable chunks. It's a bit like trying to label colours. Depending on one's approach there may be anything between 150 and 10 million hues. In normal, everyday language we probably get by with a couple of dozen labels, increasing the possibilities with such words as 'dark' and 'light' and the '-ish' suffix. So there is going to be a great deal of overlap. My 'violet' may be 'mauve', 'purple', 'reddish-blue', 'bluish- red', etc to others.

The way in which words are used means that it is theoretically possible to lump them into a small number of groups, possibly as small as eight - verb, noun, pronoun, adjective, adverb, preposition, conjunction and interjection. However, even if we agree on definitions for such groups, we need to accept that individual words can function as different parts of speech. 'Up', for example, is listed in the OALD as an adverb, preposition, adjective, verb and noun. Even then, we have to deal with such problems as whether 'up' is functioning as the same part of speech in:

He looked up the chimney (to see if he could spot the problem).
He looked up the word (in a dictionary).
The looked the word up (in a dictionary.
He ran up a large bill (in his local pub).
He ran up the street.
He climbed up the tree.
etc.

Very few grammarians would agree completely on how one should label all the words in even just one paragraph.

One other problem is that some people (I am one of them) feel that groups of words, such as "She treats me as an equal" can be analysed only as they are. Others, including W K Smart, feel that we should treat these as ellipses of 'understood' longer constructions, such as "She treats me as she would treat an equal".

So,Vaedoris, I am afraid that you will not find one authoritative answer.

My own feeling is that, in learning a language, it doesn't matter very much what we call the words. It's how we use them that matters. Until the last century or so, most speakers of most languages in the world had no idea of the concept of even 'noun' or 'verb' - but they still managed to communicate in their own language, and some did pretty well in communicating very effectively in one or more other languages.

[Vaedoris]

I choose to familiarize myself with the labels because I have realized that I can use them to analyse a sentence and determine whether it is grammatically correct or wrong regardless of its meaning!

There is this uneasy feeling in the back of my mind whenever I write a report: I feel very uncomfortable not being able to know for sure whether every sentence that I write is grammatically correct or wrong. By studying the parts of speech and a little bit of syntax, I am able to see forms and understand functions which gives me a sense of confidence.

I am not a native speaker, and I just feel hopeless to improve my English by asking about every single problem that I find because it is just too slow.

Studying the parts of speech and syntax enables me to truly begin to understand English grammar. Labels may have been just invented recently, but functions and forms, even though they evolve, exist.

Right now, my focus is to only improve my writing.

[TheParser]

I choose to familiarize myself with the labels because I have realized that I can use them to analyse a sentence and determine whether it is grammatically correct or wrong regardless of its meaning!

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Vaedoris:

We once had a president who would say, "I feel your pain." Well, I also feel your pain. My knowledge of grammar is only at

the high school level. So I, too, love the 8 parts of speech, and I am constantly trying to figure out what modifies what, etc.

I have a suggestion that you might consider. As you probably know, at the university level they use "tree" diagrams to parse

a sentence. If you are acquainted with those tree diagrams, that's great. (I certainly am not!) I have found something

better for ordinary people like me who want to better understand the parts of a sentence: the Reed-Kellogg diagramming

system. It is seldom taught in American schools anymore, for the younger teachers do not know it, and most students would

rebel if they had to study it. Nowadays, many educators laugh at it as useless and a waste of time. A few people feel that it

is absolutely fantastic. It forces you to label every part of speech so that you know what function it performs in a sentence.

Usingenglish.com has a forum called "diagramming." There is a gentleman there who will (when he has time) diagram a

sentence for you. In other words, it's like a map of the sentence. When you get time, please google "diagramming sentences."

There are some websites devoted to teaching you how to use the Reed-Kellogg diagramming system. I hope that you will

become a fan of the Reed-Kellogg Club. Our membership is dwindling as old people such as I die off. We need new blood.

Believe me: It is what you have been looking for!


James

P.S. Please run (don't walk) to this website: German - Latin - English.com.

(This website will drive you crazy with excitement and happiness!!!)

[5jj]

It is seldom taught in American schools anymore, for the younger teachers do not know it, and most students would rebel if they had to study it. Nowadays, many educators laugh at it as useless and a waste of time.

Those appear to be good reasons for not bothering with it.

A few people feel that it is absolutely fantastic. It forces you to label every part of speech so that you know what function it performs in a sentence. Usingenglish.com has a forum called "diagramming." There is a gentleman there who will (when he has time) diagram a sentence for you.

One of the reasons I rarely look at threads in that forum is that the responses suggest that R-K does not have a clear answer to every question of labelling.Some of the explanations given seem as arbitrary as those in any other system of parsing.

I hope that you will become a fan of the Reed-Kellogg Club. Our membership is dwindling as old people such as I die off.

There's a reason for that. It has passed its use-by date. It did first appear in 1877!

[5jj]

I think that I have found an answer from the greatest grammarian that ever lived (my opinion, of course!).

Curme was a sound, if not particularly original, writer 80 years ago. But, he was writing about the language used in the first quarter of the 20th century. What he said of any particular word or expression may be valid of the language today, but we need more up-ro-date evidence to be sure, as I have pointed out on more than one occasion.

Professor Dr. George Oliver Curme.

'Professor Dr (first name(s) or initials) Name' or even, if the person holds two doctorates, 'Professor Dr Dr (first name(s) or initials) Name' may be acceptable in some languages. In standard English we normally use 'Professor (first name(s) or initials) Name', Professor (first name(s) or initial) Name PhD' or 'Dr (first name(s) or initials) Name'.

[TheParser]

'Professor Dr (first name(s) or initials) Name' or even, if the person holds two doctorates, 'Professor Dr Dr (first name(s) or initials) Name' may be acceptable in some languages. In standard English we normally use 'Professor (first name(s) or initials) Name', Professor (first name(s) or initial) Name PhD' or 'Dr (first name(s) or initials) Name'.

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


1. Any student reading this thread should, of course, follow your comments regarding titles.

2. I consider "Professor Dr. Curme" my personal style of showing my respect and admiration for the scholar.

a. If you order me to stop such titles, I will have no choice but to comply.

i. If you do so order, please do so in open forum. I am a big boy. I do not need a private message.

3. I hope that we fans of Reed-Kellogg will be able to enjoy -- and benefit from -- it, regardless of what the

majority thinks.


James

[5jj]

2. I consider "Professor Dr. Curme" my personal style of showing my respect and admiration for the scholar.
a. If you order me to stop such titles, I will have no choice but to comply.

It's not a question of issuing orders, but I do request that you use standard English in the forum. If you insist on following your idiosyncratic way of showing respect, you are setting a bad example for learners, and I shall have to waste my time pointing this out to them every time.

[TheParser]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

I shall consider your answer as an order clothed in classic British understatement.

I shall henceforth refer to my hero as "Professor George Oliver Curme" or "Dr. George Oliver Curme."

[Vaedoris]

***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Vaedoris:

We once had a president who would say, "I feel your pain." Well, I also feel your pain. My knowledge of grammar is only at

the high school level. So I, too, love the 8 parts of speech, and I am constantly trying to figure out what modifies what, etc.

I have a suggestion that you might consider. As you probably know, at the university level they use "tree" diagrams to parse

a sentence. If you are acquainted with those tree diagrams, that's great. (I certainly am not!) I have found something

better for ordinary people like me who want to better understand the parts of a sentence: the Reed-Kellogg diagramming

system. It is seldom taught in American schools anymore, for the younger teachers do not know it, and most students would

rebel if they had to study it. Nowadays, many educators laugh at it as useless and a waste of time. A few people feel that it

is absolutely fantastic. It forces you to label every part of speech so that you know what function it performs in a sentence.

Usingenglish.com has a forum called "diagramming." There is a gentleman there who will (when he has time) diagram a

sentence for you. In other words, it's like a map of the sentence. When you get time, please google "diagramming sentences."

There are some websites devoted to teaching you how to use the Reed-Kellogg diagramming system. I hope that you will

become a fan of the Reed-Kellogg Club. Our membership is dwindling as old people such as I die off. We need new blood.

Believe me: It is what you have been looking for!


James

P.S. Please run (don't walk) to this website: German - Latin - English.com.

(This website will drive you crazy with excitement and happiness!!!)

Wow... that is interesting.

I've seen some tree diagrams on Wikipedia pages that link words to one another, but I never paid much attention. Now I have some idea of what they are.

Thank you!