Is there any evidence for thinking?

[taghavi]

Originally Posted by konungursvia

The central characteristic of all religions is the same: they all believe their own to be divine, and the others to be inferior, erroneous or evil.
And what do you think about Cristian,Jews and Islam and also other devine religions?

Failure to see one's own religion as one of the many that suffers from this ethnocentrism means one lacks objectivity.
Tell me what religions think such that?

But I agree that it is Middle Eastern culture, not the Quran, that has led to such poor treatment of women over there. The Taleban are killing girls that try to learn to read. Palestinians are murdering daughters and sisters who are victims of rape. Saudi women are confined to their house and back yard, and may not go anywhere without a man's permission.

Yes, I agree with you, but Are they really muslims and follow The koran instructions?

But surely you see that one cannot choose whether one believes, in sincerity. Yes, definitly, No one can recognize the best way but Allah.

If I tell you a story, and say God revealed it to me, do you not just believe, or disbelieve, based on your impression of me, and of the likelihood of the story?
And, is it a story that you are looking for truth and want to make yourself perfect? Plus, if your friend gave you an address of his home and told you before not to take the X street because it's filld with wells and gave the best address to get without danger and then allowed you to select one of both, which one would you like to choose?

It is an involuntary process of comparison with other beliefs, based on verisimilitude.

First of all we should know who invited people to choose the best form of life and why they encouraged people.

Any religion that threatens me with punishment for not believing it is necessarily unjust because it deprives me of my right to think and decide for myself. which religion? can you list them to me?

Any religion that tells me faith is needed, belief is a requirement, for me to avoid hellfire, is a religion I reject.
Why those religions say that faith is needed?

Such a religion, if it disenfranchises my conscience and judgment of truth and falsehood, must be man-made, political and nothing more than a social club for the orthodox.
Can you tell me if you are complete?

But I think we may be delving into topics for which there is no possibility of debate in your country. I admire your tenacity and ability to discuss these sensitive subjects.

It's not important for me where i am talking, either in my country or outside.

[Raymott]

Originally Posted by taghavi

Now about Bahaii as you described it as a religion;

1-Each prophet showed his miracle to prove his prophethood, now i ask you what is Bahaullah's miracle if his followers agree his prophethood?

Why do you think miracles are necessary for a religion?

2-Bahai refer to Koran and attribute the verses to him, for example they say that because the "Abjad" words in Koran are 1260 and coincideed with the advent of "bahaulah" so the koran agrees him as the next advent prophet. Does koran pointing him as the next prophet?
That's irrelevant. A breakaway religion from Islam is still a religion.
Shia Islam is still a religion even though it broke away from Sunni Islam. Or perhaps it's not?

3-Bahi says that Jesus is a martyer and came back while Jesus went to heaven and back the earth according to koran. Bahai believes in koran apparently but they dont believe in the given verse of the koran. Here we can say if they dont belive parts of koran, so they must not believe in "1260" of "Abjad letters and multiple 19 "Moghatahe" letters in koran.

And Muslims believe in the Bible, but not all of the Bible. Does that mean Islam is not a religion?

4- If Baha is a prophet of "Gha-em"- Title of person who is bekieved to be living. and advent, why has not Jesus came back with him? So he is not "Gha-em" and the real hadith are not adapted to him.
Jesus hasn't come back because he's dead. I don't really understand your question. You're referring to your own holy books and judging Baha'i on the basis of them. This is no different from referring to the Bible and deciding that Islam is not a religion because it doesn't believe in the Bible (except for selected passages). You still do not seem to understand what a religion is.

R.

[taghavi]

-I dont say that miracles are necessary for religion, i say Bahullah claimed that he was a "prophet", So the unique sign of prophets is showing one or more miracles in order to improve their prophethood. As "Bahai" believed in Koran and read about prophets indicating their own miracles, so why didnt "Baha" or "Bob" show such this important sign of prophethood if they were prophetes?


- Shiit, Sunni, Chatolic, Protestain and the other breakaway or branches of their religion have their definite basic. So you can refer them as religions.

1-Muslims believe in whole Bible ,of course, not distorted Bible.
2-Bahai believes in whole koran, on the other hand, they believe that Jesus was killed and then he will come back this world. Now i want to ask them, if they belived in koran or even belived in Bible that finally Jesus would come back, why their Bob hadnt come with Jesus, as they claim that Bob is "Gha-em"?
3- You are not Christian, but real Christians believe that Jesus will come back to this world and save people.

- If i want to refer the meaning of religion written in books and dictate it, i wont think it's fair. because still writers and researchers havent been able to select the best form of its meaning. So;

Religion means a method or a way indicating program in order to lead people to the best way of life.

Now i want to claime that Bahaii is not a religion because;

Religions have got their own distinctive and definite or stable instructions (method). But when I review Bahaii, I would recognize chaos. why?

1- this so called religion basis on lack of religion; because it face many dangling ideas, in fact, instructions are flowing without being thought about them. for example;
Bob, at first, claimed he was God's servent.
Then he claimed that he got the last prophet
and the final stage is his being God so all the world created by his reflection.
No religion has had such this chaos expression. All people get wandering in the desert while they are not familiar with their real leader, god, prophet, and program with this unmethod. what is their way? They dont know.
Finally, they will get lost in unknown place.



2- it says that old manners in religion should be changed because the world gets new;
I want to say good behaviour to parents is the old manner, So because the world gets new and people are busy, we see the most young leave their parents, now should parents be forgotten because the new manner is like that?

[Raymott]

taghavi said:

Religion means a method or a way indicating program in order to lead people to the best way of life.



I accept that the Baha'i might not be a religion based on your definition. (I don't know it well enough to argue about it being a comprehensive way of life).
But I've already explained that your definition of religion is wrong.

Using you definition, humanism, hedonism and communism are all religions. But that's not how the term is generally used in English.

[taghavi]

[QUOTE=Raymott;531557]taghavi said:

Religion means a method or a way indicating program in order to lead people to the best way of life.



I accept that the Baha'i might not be a religion based on your definition. (I don't know it well enough to argue about it being a comprehensive way of life).
But I've already explained that your definition of religion is wrong.
And I told you about the real meaning of the root of a religion before. Didn't I?

Yet, nobody get the best form of its meaning.

Using you definition, humanism, hedonism and communism are all religions. I want to ask you if they have any program?
Neither Bahaii nor those three names you mentioned above have a definite program in order to lead people. But that's not how the term is generally used in English.


Any way, I asked you why you would like to defend women's rights?
You answered; "because that's what we're talking about at the moment."
And I explaned more to you about Muslims women. Didn't you read an earlier couple of letter? Why do you make judgment without having experience or studying?

I also read that you said "because of their religion" they were miserable.
If you would like to repeat "because of their religion", I will have to clarify it to you. I would like to ask you what you see in Islam that indicating women's miserable?

[konungursvia]

My point is that you are in error to consider any religion divine, if you also consider the other religions not to be divine. It's ethnocentric, like saying "we Vikings are strong and invincible, but other humans are weak and ugly in comparison."

All the old, widely-pradctised religions are essentially similar.

The religions that threaten me with punishment for not believing them: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism.

The religions that do not threaten me with punishment for disbelief (to my knowledge): Buddhishm (most sects), Hinduism, Sikhism, Shinto, Jainism.

The threat is a tool for growth and control, not a real injunction from God, who allows me to believe whatever I want. Do you see?

[Raymott]

Using you definition, humanism, hedonism and communism are all religions. I want to ask you if they have any program?
Neither Bahaii nor those three names you mentioned above have a definite program in order to lead people.
I could argue that these philosphies have a ‘program’ for how life is best led. But there isn’t much point because you’ve answered your own question. In any case, neither of us is claiming that they are religions.

Any way, I asked you why you would like to defend women's rights?
You answered; "because that's what we're talking about at the moment."
And I explaned more to you about Muslims women. Didn't you read an earlier couple of letter? Why do you make judgment without having experience or studying?


I’m not sure what your objection is here. I’ve read all your letters.
Women will never have the same rights as men in an Islamic country. They will always be inferior because that’s what the Koran says. And that’s fine if you like it that way.

I would like to ask you what you see in Islam that indicating women's miserable?
I’m not claiming that all women in Muslim countries are miserable. Obviously there are also miserable women in western countries too. Besides there is a misunderstanding: You were the first to mention “miserable”. I merely pointed out that they had fewer rights.

English lesson:
You asked me “Why do you think women are miserable?” This can be read two ways:
1. Why are women miserable, do you think? (This assumes women are miserable).
2. You think women are miserable. Why do you think this?
Your meaning was probably 2. but I answered 1.

[taghavi]

Originally Posted by Raymott

Using you definition, humanism, hedonism and communism are all religions. I want to ask you if they have any program?
Neither Bahaii nor those three names you mentioned above have a definite program in order to lead people.
I could argue that these philosphies have a ‘program’ for how life is best led. But there isn’t much point because you’ve answered your own question. In any case, neither of us is claiming that they are religions. Ok.

Any way, I asked you why you would like to defend women's rights?
You answered; "because that's what we're talking about at the moment."
And I explaned more to you about Muslims women. Didn't you read an earlier couple of letter? Why do you make judgment without having experience or studying?


I’m not sure what your objection is here. I’ve read all your letters.
Women will never have the same rights as men in an Islamic country. It must be the fault of Islamic countries and not that of Islam itself. Women's righs are the same as men but not similar to them. Can a man be a mother or vice versa can a woman be a father? Here we find the difference between men and women. It's completely natural.They will always be inferior because that’s what the Koran says. And that’s fine if you like it that way. Tell me honestly, Which one is more emotional? Men or Women?

I would like to ask you what you see in Islam that indicating women's miserable?
I’m not claiming that all women in Muslim countries are miserable. Ok.Obviously there are also miserable women in western countries too. Besides there is a misunderstanding: You were the first to mention “miserable”. I merely pointed out that they had fewer rights. And I explained to you before.

English lesson:
You asked me “Why do you think women are miserable?” This can be read two ways:
1. Why are women miserable, do you think? (This assumes women are miserable).
2. You think women are miserable. Why do you think this?Yes, but I've just received your reply.
Your meaning was probably 2. but I answered 1.

You seem very busy. Many thanks for your accompanying.
Bye for now

[taghavi]

Originally Posted by konungursvia

My point is that you are in error to consider any religion divine, if you also consider the other religions not to be divine. It's ethnocentric, like saying "we Vikings are strong and invincible, but other humans are weak and ugly in comparison." Ok, you are free to take a walk wherever you like. I hope we won't regret one day.

All the old, widely-pradctised religions are essentially similar.

The religions that threaten me with punishment for not believing them: Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism. This expression reminds me of Imam Ali's saying;
" There are people who worship Allah to gain His Favors, this is worship of traders;
while there are some who worship him to keep themselves free from His Wrath, this is the worship of slaves;
A few who obey Him out of their sense of gratitude and obligations; this is the worship of free and noble men."
The religions that do not threaten me with punishment for disbelief (to my knowledge): Buddhishm (most sects), Hinduism, Sikhism, Shinto, Jainism. Feel free!

The threat is a tool for growth and control, not a real injunction from God, who allows me to believe whatever I want. Do you see?

Our views are different.

[Raymott]

About emotions:



Tell me honestly, Which one is more emotional? Men or Women?


I believe that women display their emotions more than men do, if that’s what you mean by ‘emotional’.
I think it’s uncontentious that women tend to cry more than men; men tend to be more physically violent than women. Of course, these are behaviours – the result of emotions.

Read here; this is close to what I believe:
(But remember that this is statistical; it does not necessarily relate to individuals. As a stereotype, it’s probably true).
http://virgil.azwestern.edu/~dag/lol/EmotionWomen.html

Here is a less serious opinion:
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Are women more emotional than men are? |Girltime Coaching