Is there any evidence for thinking?

[konungursvia]

Originally Posted by taghavi

And about God's Mercy;
He creates all humans equally, I mean, equally in their nature. They are all his humans. He loved them eually. But, He severely ask them to respect their rights and their own kinds' rights. If, here, someone didn't respect to someone else, he or she will break other's rights. "Why do you disrespect your own kind?" Here Allah defend their rights. This justice rule is not found anywhere only in God's law. In Koran, we see that Allah notes "killing each person illegally is the same as killing all people" and "saving one person's life is the same as saving all people". In fact, this is his the very Mercy that he defends his humans. Why God defended baby-girls that killed by their family? This is a point of his mercy and his justice.

That is the weakest point you've made yet; anyone looking for God's mercy is trying to find noon at two o'clock.

If I even begin to list the ways the innocent are allowed so suffer, and go unprotected, you will see that your claim God defends their rights is incorrect. He does nothing while the world suffers.

[taghavi]

What do you mean?
Is that too bad, as you mentioned my weakest point, If God defends his creatures?
What's your reason?

[Raymott]

Originally Posted by taghavi

What do you mean?
Is that too bad, as you mentioned my weakest point, If God defends his creatures?
What's your reason?

No, your point is bad because God does not defend his creatures.
Re-read kon's post in that light. I agree with him.

[taghavi]

Please list the evidence that shows Allah does not defend his humans and then send me.

[konungursvia]

I'll just give one or two; if you can't find others you are not trying to look. Here, a nation of Muslims lost 155,000 lives in great suffering, including many innocent children. The number of injured, orphaned, bereaved, destitute and homeless was 20 times that. In the second, a Canadian-Iranian journalist is killed by the Isl. Rep. for writing about its corruption.

Indonesia: Tsunami Summary

http://www.wfafi.org/wfafistatement4.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi

[Raymott]

And what about the millions of women and men and children in Dafur and sub-Saharan Africa who are starving to death. He's not making much a fist looking after them.
Medical care is so expensive because God does nothing to prevent illnesses and natural calamities. Half of my working life as a doctor was attempting to fix up damage that God had caused or allowed to happen. Far from looking after his children, God sends plagues and poisons and strokes and brain tumours. He was not very popular at the main hospital I used to work at.

[taghavi]

First, I will answer the first example of Kon, because The last two examples is not related to Allah, it relates to politics in counntries, so please dont confuse me with 2 separated samples. ok? I think i mentioned before that set your position; politics? religion? my country -Iran? which one you point out?

Your first question;
As I understood you ask me why Allah suffer humans with natural disasters?

As the world is a natural place and all scientists develope their scientific research with its events, so all happenings are very natural even natural disasters like earthquakes, flood, volcanic activities....this is natural if faults moves overlaping as a result of pressing. If it was not so, scientists did not come into conclusion. it is natural if the gas in the earth active fast and volcanic ountains exploded melted materias in them and burst into the earth. This is natural if seas and ociens overwhelmed and make flood. All are natural and these natural events should be carried out.

Why these disasters happen?
2 reasons;

1- They naturally happen by God's order.
2- They naturally happen by Human's activities.

first of all i will explain part "2"and then i will back part "1".

part 2- Humans with their activities like building factories, labaratories and Atomic Reactorors suffer the environment. So, those events will carry out and even 2-3 times as natural events in the result of human's activities. here, we can see easily that humanbeing himself makes events like those.

part 1;
this events are also divided two parts;
one is for human's manners ;
as we read in koran when people commited crimes and continued their bad deeds, God purified the earth from evil deeds, so those generations stoped their crimes for a while in order to humans make progress in their lives.

Another part is that for us again;
Why the wheather gets cold, hot, rainy and sunny? Can you prevent them from happening? No, you are developing and the evolution makes human find the higher position before past times. For example, Tokyo is one of the most cities which face many volcanic activities and earthquakes, So humans in this country have changed and made progress the style of buildings. When, we compare this time into past we simply see the worst earthquakes couldnt overcome their styles of the days humankinds. If there is not any needs, Humanbeing cannot make forward. They cannot get the perfect level of humanity.
While a natural disaster happens to an specific area whoes people are poor here is you that should and must help your own kind. If you are laying on your sofa and watching poor people on your TV asking help, you should jump up and show again your humanitarian across the world. You and your rich country must hurry up to help them and rebuild their cities with their help. Again, Allah invites you as a human to help your own kind. Go and save individuals quickly. How can you prove that you are a good man to help your own kind in the spot? If you are just watching Tv or breathing easily without having pain to humans, you are not called really a human.

Another reason for natural disasters is, in fact, the reminding of the last Day of this world. When most people are wandering and terrified by the disasters will happen to this world. Who can escape from this huge event when this world naturally gets perfect and will change into another world?

[taghavi]

Originally Posted by Raymott

And what about the millions of women and men and children in Dafur and sub-Saharan Africa who are starving to death. He's not making much a fist looking after them.
Do you know that Africa is the richest continent?
Who made the people of this continent so poor?
It refers to a political issue.
Again human has a significant role here.




Medical care is so expensive because God does nothing to prevent illnesses and natural calamities. Half of my working life as a doctor was attempting to fix up damage that God had caused or allowed to happen. Far from looking after his children, God sends plagues and poisons and strokes and brain tumours. He was not very popular at the main hospital I used to work at.

Why God should prevent thoes illnessess while human suffers himself?
Why God should fix up the illness when people make the earth dirty?
The earth was at first clean and purified. The human makes it dirty and filled it with illness.

Plus, there is one thing. This world is a world of exmination for all humans . every body have ever been tested by each exam. This world is not for everlasting. Allah says in koran; "I have ever tested you by illness, childeren, spouse, possessions, difficulties, peace, wars and so on in this temporary world."

I do know, Ray, that how much it is difficult for you to think why we have been tested so hard. This world is not a everlasting resting place, difficulties prepare us to get the perfect level.

Finally, after difficulties you will get rest.

It reminds me of a young lady who was talking on TV. She was suffered from an illness. When she was asked what was your reaction to your God she answerd; "I do know that my God loves me and selected me as one of his servent to more talk with him, I do love to talk with my God. when Someone who does not like God, Allah gives him full of things that they were involving in them in order to neglect Allah".

For example, me; I have faced a lot of difficulties like illness, missing my dear relatives, their illness, war ....But I dont think that , even for a moment, My God neglects me.

It's strange, You are not cruel but I don't know really why you are eager to hate him.
What happens to you? These days you have changed. your style of writting has been changed. you might be too busy. I think you want to get rid of sth or sb. Maybe it is me? Yes?

[konungursvia]

Oh, yeah, not to mention the "Flood" that killed everyone but Noah and his family.

Your long and stilted answer show you don't want to think about the matter. That is okay.

[Raymott]

The other is that a perfectly just God cannot be merciful.
taghavi said:
His mercy and his justice is not equal to anything and anyone. First of all, If God gave more and eternal oportunity to human, they would commit crimes eternally. Thanks God that he gives us only a limited time for a testing to do good or evil deeds. Second, God will have been burning evil deeds till they will be vanished. And then, human get purified from his sins like a baby. Then, such a* human can deserve to go to a resting place.
Oh, so in Islam, hell is not eternal? That sounds like the Catholic doctrine of purgatory. You go to a bad place to work off your sins, then you go to heaven. (There are probably parole requirements, etc.)

And about God's Mercy;
He creates all humans equally, I mean, equally in their nature.
Actually this is hard to believe. While it’s a basic principle of humanity to treat people as if they have been created equally, it would be hard to demonstrate this logically.
They are all his humans. He loved them eually. But, He severely ask them to respect their rights and their own kinds' rights. If, here, someone didn't respect to someone else, he or she will break other's rights. "Why do you disrespect your own kind?" Here Allah defend their rights. This justice rule is not found anywhere only in God's law. In Koran, we see that Allah notes "killing each person illegally is the same as killing all people" and "saving one person's life is the same as saving all people". In fact, this is his the very Mercy that he defends his humans. Why God defended baby-girls that killed by their family? This is a point of his mercy and his justice.

A divine Religion consists of two structures-deep and surface- like linguistics!
Nice analogy, but I think the deep structures of religion are really what atheists disagree with. What are deep structures which atheists disagree with?
Primarily the concept that there is a God, in the first place. And that he has handed down written laws for us; that he has a pit of hellfire ready for unbelievers.
Superficialities such as rituals and laws about eating pork are not things that upset atheists much. (I can’t speak for all).

And, these verses are not derived from real Bibles. So, please refer to the real non-distorted Bible.
I’ve asked you before where I can find one of these Islam-sanctioned “real” Bibles, and you haven’t answered me. I’m beginning to think there is no such thing, and that what you call the non-distorted Bible is simply a compilation of events from the Koran that bear some similarities to events in the Bible. Is this true?
I havent found any verse in Koran that mentioned he would come back before that generation died.
So there are no “real Bibles” outside of the Koran? Isn’t that simply stating that you don’t believe in the Bible. If so, why not simply say so.

Yes, there have been evil scientists, and evil believers. Surely you’re not suggesting that atheists have a monopoly on bomb making.No, but If everybody comits crimes, they all dont believe in God at all. If someone knows Allah, and understands that their deeds can be easily observed by God, they definitely would not comit a crime. Because they are afraid of God's Wrath.
There are many understandings of Islam, just as there are of all religions. Islamic suicide bombers believe in Allah as much as you do, and they think they are doing the right thing. The same applies to violent Christians and Jews. Both the Bible and Koran can be read as supporting violence (including killing women and children, genocide) as long as the goal is worthy. Muhammed himself was a warlord.
Yes, they are afraid of God’s wrath, but God’s handbooks allow this sort of thing, and some might even read it as encouragement. There’s no use claiming that these people are not “real Muslims”.

one thing; these signs are increasing during recent 100 years;

-being dressed up women into men and vice versa Not true at all.
- making up men like women Not true at all.
-increasing telling lies more than before How do you know this?
-increasing bribing more than before How do you know this?
-increasing unlawful profits more than before How do you know this?
-cutting their relationships and keeping touch with relatieves and neigbours
Men have always gone off to wars, leaving their homes for 10 years or so. Fragile relationships have been manifest ever since Cain killed Abel.
-being involved women in business as men more than before I’ll grant you this one.
-good deeds become in the shape of evils and vice versa(good deeds appear bad and bad deeds appear good and beautiful) and people admire evils and critisize good deeds.
What sort of understanding do you have of history, taghavi? All of these things happened in ancient times. There have always been tranvestites, transsexuals, eunichs. In any case, what are “men’s clothes” and “women’s clothes”? Arabic men wear what appear to be long dresses to western people. Type of clothing is a cultural thing. And do you really believe that God is going to come and destroy the earth he created just because women have started wearing jeans?
There have always been traders who make the biggest profit they can. And how on earth do you know that people lie more now than they did 300 years ago?
I don’t think you have the knowledge to say that these things have been increasing in the last 100 years. You’ve certainly given no evidence. I’d say you’re guessing.

sth like bird called "tayareh"- in Arabic means aircraft- will come among you and like non-flame and cold fire. people will suffer from that. this fire will burn peoples and their possessions. and will move and go arround the world and its going around on earth takes within 8 days. its hotness in the night is more than in days. it set over people between earth and sky and its sound will be like the sound of thunder.
And the source?

*English lesson:
Such – you generally use this wrongly.
such a person …such a person as this … a person such as this …
such people … such people as this … people such as this …