Is there any evidence for thinking?

[Raymott]

At least he would keep my problems confidential, but I don’t think his advice would necessarily help much.
Can I talk about this subject in a few weeks? I hope I won't forget.
Yes

One day I will die. No matter how much I have learnt, I will not be perfect. Perfect human beings don’t exist.
sorry if I have to say this; Ok, You will die. so stop learning now, can you?
That would be rather nihilistic, wouldn’t it? I like learning. Do you want me to stop eating as well simply because I’m going to die one day?

Really? The world was created for me to learn? J
are you laughting at me? ok, I let you laugh at me!
Wouldn’t I have to be more than a little arrogant to think that?
Arrogant to whom?
Arrogant towards everyone and everything but me.

Re: astral bodies
No it’s got nothing to do with astronomy. Why do you think that? Just because they’re called astral bodies doesn’t mean they’re related to stars!
yes i dont know, what are 7 astral bodies, that i havent heared of them up to now?
Well, I have to ask: If you have never heard of them, how do you know they are ridiculous?

[taghavi]

Originally Posted by Raymott

At least he would keep my problems confidential, but I don’t think his advice would necessarily help much.
Can I talk about this subject in a few weeks? I hope I won't forget.
Yes

One day I will die. No matter how much I have learnt, I will not be perfect. Perfect human beings don’t exist.
sorry if I have to say this; Ok, You will die. so stop learning now, can you?
That would be rather nihilistic, wouldn’t it? I like learning. Why do you like learning? Do you want me to stop eating as well simply because I’m going to die one day? Yes,You can, because either eating or not eating is equal to someone who thinks death is the end of line.
Really? The world was created for me to learn? J
are you laughting at me? ok, I let you laugh at me!
Wouldn’t I have to be more than a little arrogant to think that?
Arrogant to whom?
Arrogant towards everyone and everything but me.
If you asked me this question i would answer; you cannot be arrogant towards everyone, but you can arrogant towards everything.

Re: astral bodies
No it’s got nothing to do with astronomy. Why do you think that? Just because they’re called astral bodies doesn’t mean they’re related to stars!
yes i dont know, what are 7 astral bodies, that i havent heared of them up to now?
Well, I have to ask: If you have never heard of them, how do you know they are ridiculous?

I read about 7 brothers or 7 stars, and considered you meant that of i thought so I told you, it's rediculous if i put them in religion.

You might mean 7 organs as head,two hands, two feet, breast and stomach and they all form of a body. Yes? but these entities are not showing one's identity.

Now I dont know which either you mean or sth else that i havent heard yet?

[taghavi]

Hi, again
I answered above in brown.


Since I read about religions made by humans or unfortunaly distorted by them, I faced many illogical things that I can list some of them to you.

When a religion tell you, someday the world was chaos and gods fought against them and then two gods called Idzanagi(male) and Idzanami (female) won in the battle. They made a rainbow from the earth to the sky then people could easily climbed it. then this bridge was broken and people couldnt use it. You can consider this story superstitious. people worship such these gods, they also worship souls and sky. we see it in Shinto.


Another superstition found in Brahma is that god with the shape of a human. Vishno is a god with four arms is as a strange shape. Shiva has got a head with a number of hands. they said after death souls rebirth and became manifest in the other bodies. they also said that human was responsible since they was a sperm till the end of life. how are they responsible?
in Budism we can see that they dont believe in soul but believe in reincarnation, budism said that wives, chideren, and family cause adversity. you do not read or listen to somebody unless you have personally experience. we havent personally experienced
any dangerous, and other warned us this is danger, so is it reasonable if we experience it?
one of its superstions is that world didnt start and wouldnt end. while science proves that the world had a start point.
this religion said that the world didnt have any creator but there was a learend manager there. how?

in Lamaism they belive that soul of Lama entered into a child who became the next lama- lama's succuessor.

Followers of Jainism prohibit agriculture, because they believe land is demolished and animals and insects in soil killed by farming. they also covered their mouth and nose so the microscope insects didnt kill by their breathing. Is it resonable?

Worship of god as sun and stars and considered fire holy is superstition in Mazdaism, of course, then Zoroaster admited that worship of many gods is illogical so ordered people that obey one god. he has a book named Avesta.

Next time I will explain about religions which humans distorted.

[Raymott]

Originally Posted by taghavi

Now I dont know which either you mean or something else that i havent heard yet?

I don't know what this means, taghavi. Perhaps you could write less often, but more comprehensibly. Don't misunderstand me. I do want to hear what you want to say. That is the reason I think you should either use simpler sentences, or spend longer making them understandable.

You seem to be saying "I don't know which of these you mean, or whether you mean something else that I haven't heard of yet" If that's the meaning, it still doesn't make sense in the context.
Perhaps you could use nouns more often rather than replacing them with pronouns like "these, those, either" - which I cannot find a referent for.

[Raymott]

<Me in Blue>
Since I read about religions made by humans or unfortunaly distorted by them, I faced many illogical things that I can list some of them to you.

I have also found many illogical things in religion. It's not hard to do.

Onereligion tells you, that originally the world was inchaos and gods fought against them, and then two gods called Idzanagi(male) and Idzanami (female) won in the battle. They made a rainbow from the earth to the sky thatpeople could easily climbed. Then this bridge was broken and people couldnt use it. You can consider this story superstitious. People worship such gods as these; they also worship souls and sky.
We see it in Shinto.
Another superstition found in Brahma is that there is a god with the shape of a human. Vishno is a god with four arms; a strange shape. Shiva has got a head with a number of hands. They said after death souls are reborn and became manifest in the other bodies. They also said that humans were responsible since they was a sperm till the end of life. How is that responsible?
In Buddhism we can see that they don’t believe in soul but believe in reincarnation, Buddhism said that wives, children, and family cause adversity. You do not read or listen to somebody unless you have personally experience. (I’m not sure what this sentence means)
We havent personally experienced any dangers, and other warned us this is danger, so is it reasonable if we experience it?
Do you mean that, since we have not personally experienced wives and children as causing adversity, why should we believe it? That is easily answered in the context of Buddhist philosophy. It is the same reason that Catholic priests do not marry, or that any religion has holy men (and sometimes women) who do not marry. A family takes your focus away from religious observance, and you lose your way. I’m sure you have such religious ascetics in Islam as well.

One of its superstitions is that world didnt start and wouldnt end, while science proves that the world had a start point. This religion said that the world didnt have any creator but there was a learned manager there. How?
In Lamaism they belive that the soul of aLama entered into a child who became the next lama – the lama's successor.
Followers of Jainism prohibit agriculture, because they believe land is demolished and animals and insects in the soil are killed by farming. They also covered their mouth and nose so the microscopic insects weren’t killed by their breathing. Is it reasonable?
No, I don’t like cruely to animals but that does sound a little excessive.

Worship of god as sun and stars and considering fire holy is a superstition in Mazdaism, of course, then Zoroaster admitted that worship of many gods is illogical so ordered people that obey one god. he has a book named Avesta.

Next time I will explain about religions which humans distorted.
OK
I hope this isn't building up to an assertion that there is nothing irrational in Islam, because you should know that I, like most agnostics and many theists, think there is.

But, please, continue with your story....

[taghavi]

Hello,
As you know I am very busy these days, but I will try to answer your questions as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by Raymott

I don't know what this means, taghavi. Perhaps you could write less often, but more comprehensibly. Don't misunderstand me. I do want to hear what you want to say. That is the reason I think you should either use simpler sentences, or spend longer making them understandable.Sorry for any inconvenience. I thought that you meant 7 organs. or 7 brothers. Yes? if you dont, please tell me what you mean?

You seem to be saying "I don't know which of these you mean, or whether you mean something else that I haven't heard of yet" If that's the meaning, it still doesn't make sense in the context. yes i mean the sentence you wrote above.
Perhaps you could use nouns more often rather than replacing them with pronouns like "these, those, either" - which I cannot find a referent for.

All right

[taghavi]

Originally Posted by Raymott

<Me in Blue>
And me in pink
Since I read about religions made by humans or unfortunaly distorted by
them, I faced many illogical things that I can list some of them to you.

I have also found many illogical things in religion. It's not hard to do. yes

In Buddhism we can see that they don’t believe in soul but believe in reincarnation, Buddhism said that wives, children, and family cause adversity. You do not read or listen to somebody unless you have personally experience. (I’m not sure what this sentence means)
Budism says that when you yourself have experience something, then believe that something. Here in Budism your experirence is important and it doesn't pay attention to other people's experience or sayings or warnings.
According to budism idea wrote above, if there are flames of fire, we ourselves personally should experience burning in hot fire at first and then consider its danger. Is it resonable?
We havent personally experienced any dangers, and other warned us this is danger, so is it reasonable if we experience it?
Do you mean that, since we have not personally experienced wives and children as causing adversity, why should we believe it? That is easily answered in the context of Buddhist philosophy. It is the same reason that Catholic priests do not marry, or that any religion has holy men (and sometimes women) who do not marry. A family takes your focus away from religious observance, and you lose your way. I’m sure you have such religious ascetics in Islam as well. But we don't find such these ideas not only in Islam but in other divine religions. Can you give me an example in Islam that someone was prevented from marrying or having a child? Do you really believe that a family takes your focus away from religious observance? If you are sure, please tell me.

One of its superstitions is that world didnt start and wouldnt end, while science proves that the world had a start point. This religion said that the world didnt have any creator but there was a learned manager there. How?
In Lamaism they belive that the soul of aLama entered into a child who became the next lama – the lama's successor.
Followers of Jainism prohibit agriculture, because they believe land is demolished and animals and insects in the soil are killed by farming. They also covered their mouth and nose so the microscopic insects weren’t killed by their breathing. Is it reasonable?
No, I don’t like cruely to animals but that does sound a little excessive. And strange.
Neither Christian, nor Islam, nor Jews and nor other divine religions like cruely to animals.

Worship of god as sun and stars and considering fire holy is a superstition in Mazdaism, of course, then Zoroaster admitted that worship of many gods is illogical so ordered people that obey one god. he has a book named Avesta.

Next time I will explain about religions which humans distorted.
OK
I hope this isn't building up to an assertion that there is nothing irrational in Islam, because you should know that I, like most agnostics and many theists, think there is. I dont like to defend any religion irrationally. Suppose that I didnt believe in Islam. Now can you give me an example if there is a strange something in Islam? I would like to know more.

But, please, continue with your story....

After replying to these questions, I will refer to distorted divine religions. Ok?

[Raymott]

Buddhism says that when you yourself have experienced something, then believe that something. Here in Budism your experirence is important and it doesn't pay attention to other people's experience or sayings or warnings.
No, I don’t think that’s true at all. The Buddha’s sayings are meant to be listened to and followed. The crucial factor is that he didn’t say “Have faith in me and do what I say”. He said “If you don’t believe me, try it out for yourself”.

According to budism idea wrote above, if there are flames of fire, we ourselves personally should experience burning in hot fire at first and then consider its danger. Is it resonable?
Well let’s firstly decide whether it’s true that he said that. Do you have a reference?
The meaning of this doctrine was that the Buddha’s philosophy did not need to be taken on faith; that you could test it out yourself, and find it to be true. I think you’ve been fed all sorts of straw man arguments and taught how to make things sound ridiculous. I find that quite objectionable in an education system.
No, it is not reasonable to walk through flames to find out if they are hot. It is reasonable to test things out yourself if you’re unsure about them though.

Can you give me an example in Islam that someone was prevented from marrying or having a child? Do you really believe that a family takes your focus away from religious observance? If you are sure, please tell me.
No, I was asking you whether you have ascetics, maybe sufis, who don’t marry, but give over their life to mysticism. If you say no, then I believe you.

Neither Christian, nor Islam, nor Jews and nor other divine religions like cruely to animals.
I think most religions sacrifice animals to their gods, don’t they?

I dont like to defend any religion irrationally.
But you don’t mind attacking other religions irrationally?

Suppose that I didnt believe in Islam. Nowcan you give me an example if there is a strange something in Islam? I would like to know more.
But you do believe in Islam. OK, how about having to bend down towards a big black empty box in the middle of the desert five times a day. Wouldn’t that be a bit odd if you weren’t a Muslim?

After replying to these questions, I will refer to distorted divine religions. Ok?
Well, I’d prefer you didn’t distort them too much. Religion is meant to be irrational. You don’t have to prove to me how irrational they are by giving me the distorted view you have been been told to believe about them.
But OK, tell me what you think and we’ll see if it is the adherents who have distorted their own religion or whether it is your teachers who have.

[taghavi]

I have been trying not to say something without reference. here "world's religions" is another my reference. Budism doesnt believe in something he have heared, he believes his experience personally and what he has tried out and follow it. I mean that searching about something is important and not only your experience on that. I dont agree on having only personal experience. For example; history events could be an experience from past to present and you yourself dont need to try them out again. In my opinion, searching and deep thinking are important.
I think that relying on only personal experience is not resonable. Because human has not been yet completed to follow whether his experience is correct or not. Are all personal experiences correct and are without deficiency? Is that logic if we just lean on our personal tests?


Do you mean sufis is one of the branches of Islam?

Don't you eat meat?

No, I dont mind attacking other religions irrationally.

Without deep searching, bending down towards a black empty box (Kabba) is odd.


Religion is meant to be irrational! why?

[Raymott]

I have been trying not to say something without reference. here "world's religions" is another my reference. A Buddhist doesnt believe in something he has heard, he believes his experience personally and what he has tried out and followed. I dont agree on having only personal experience.
Nor do Buddhists. They follow Buddhas philosophy of Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. They don’t just make it up as they along. If you don’t accept a certain amount of Buddhist dogma, then you aren’t a Buddhist.

For example; historical events could be an experience from past to present and you yourself dont need to try them out again. In my opinion, searching and deep thinking are important.
‘Searching and deep thinking’ are also personal experience. So, in that sense, in both Islam and Buddhism, you believe both in dogma and also personal experience. You’ll find that all major religions have an external dogmatic side and an internal experiential side, as well as other dimensions such as ethics, ritual, etc.

I think that relying on only personal experience is not resonable.
No one does this. Not even the most nihilistic existentialist does this. We all rely to some extent on what we’ve been taught.

Do you mean sufis is one of the branches of Islam?
A sufi is a Muslim who is into mysticism. If you’re not a Muslim, then you can’t be a sufi. Am I right so far? I’m asking whether sufis reject marriage and family to concentrate on mysticism.

Don't you eat meat?
Yes, I do. Why do you ask?

No, I dont mind attacking other religions irrationally.
I’m not what you mean here. There are two possible meanings.
i. You don’t mind attacking irrational religions.
ii. You don’t mind being irrational when you are attacking religions.

Without deep searching, bending down towards a black empty box (Kabba) is odd.
Perhaps some of the things you label as irrational in other religions are also odd if they are taken out of context? Eg. the Catholic notion of God comprising three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is also odd, if you do not have a spiritual understanding about the trinity. Perhaps sacrificing virgins into a volcano seems odd if you don’t believe that the Volcano god will be very angry if you don’t do it.

Religion is meant to be irrational! why?
If religion was rational, you wouldn’t need faith to believe in it. One of the purposes of religion is to explain what can not be otherwise explained rationally.