[Grammar] Native Speakers: What is most noticable?

[PROESL]

Originally Posted by Tdol

I would say that this could depend on the level of the speaker- at lower levels, omitting an article is unlikely to cause a misunderstanding, but at higher levels, errors that could make a difference could be taken at face value because their fluency is good.

Good fluency (functional fluency that is) can affect the way certain mistakes are perceived as well. If someone is at a beginner or low intermediate level, then double negatives sound like one is still learning the language. However, as soon as one starts to speak with more confidence, even with a discernable accent, double negatives begin to sound more like unintelligent language. Using "was" in place of "were" will sound like a mistake for a beginner, but it may not be taken that way for those at more advanced levels. It may not sound like a mistake; it may simply sound like poor language skills for not using what we accept and know as the standard - and what we know as correct, usual, and typical. I should add, as well, that this would be so because those errors are easily recognized as typical native speaker errors (without bringing in the whole discussion about "dialects" ) .

[Ann1977]

Originally Posted by anupumh

This explanation primarily dealt with English Grammar, now If I drift to English Pronunciation and ask you to comment as a native speaker what do you think impacts the most..

Consonants: Inappropriate Voicing, Harsh Plosives (PKT), Sh/S problems, S/Z problems, inability to produce a ZH sound.

Vowels: replacing short with long vowel sounds, inability to produce a proper schawa sound, other problems with vowel sounds.

Problems with Syllable Stress: English being a stressed timed language and other languages could be syllable timed where the concept of syllable stress is absent and all syllables recieve equal stress.

Sentence Stress: Unaware of sentence stress and stressing on incorrect words (function words instead of content words)

Intonation: Usage of improper tone, pitch and volume which does not match with the native speaker and conveys incorrect emotion.

So out these above mentioned factors which would be important and why?

Different accents have different faults. Some of these matter because they irritate or exhaust the listener, and (sometimes) even impede comprehensibility.

It is my experience that the most difficult thing about the accent of people from India is the intonation, the incorrect "musicality" -- but I don't know that I am able to distinguish between that and the other "stress mistakes" you list.

It seems to me that mistakes with consonants are the easiest to listen to, and perhaps they are even the very thing that makes a French or Russian accent actually agreeable and pleasing to American ears.

[konungursvia]

Originally Posted by Tdol

I would say that this could depend on the level of the speaker- at lower levels, omitting an article is unlikely to cause a misunderstanding, but at higher levels, errors that could make a difference could be taken at face value because their fluency is good.

I agree that it does matter. When you're trying to solve a computer problem, for instance, and the person suggests "put disk in tray" and then "click on icon" it is the lack of precision that frustrates, and can lead to errors. The article is quite necessary for conveying expectations of specificity, and its absence is only charming when there is no possibility for misunderstanding: "President of United States arrived in city today." But in many cases, it is annoying and casts doubt on instructions when absent.

[pyoung]

Dear anupumh:

Addressing the goal of being understood,I would say:

Originally Posted by anupumh

Hi,

Differences in Usage (The statement might be grammatically correct but is not used by native speakers, ex. I will go to work next to next day instead of I will go to work the day after next)
This can cause a problem, especially in the area of idiomatic usage.

Problems with Syntax or Sentence Structure
This would depend on how non-standard the speaker's word order is. When a language learner begins with key words that express the main idea and then goes back to 'fill in' as key elements of structure come to mind, most listeners will get the point.
Many non-standard utterances are perfectly understandable, but some are so unusual that they can be confusing.

Incorrect usage of preposition (using incorrect preposition or adding a preposition where it is not necessary, ex "You should contact to the officer")
only if it changes the meaning, as described by Raymott.

Problems with Tense (shifting from one tense to another within a statement, incorrect usage of verb tense)
again, only if the tense is a critical element and there are no clarifying markers (yesterday, tomorrow, etc.)

Fillers and Foghorns (Usage of unnecessary words and pauses)
not usually a problem if the listener is patient.

Subject and Verb Agreement Errors (Ram eat food, Ram and John eats food.)
not a problem

Missing an article i.e. a, an ,the (the speaker misses placing an article before the noun)
not a problem

Please arrange all of these in an order, starting with the ones whom you think are most important and significant followed by the ones which are less important and significant.

Note: If you think I have missed out on something which impacts comprehensibility of a non native speaker, please feel free to add and point out.

If possible please provide reasons as to why you think so.

Thanks a ton

Also: serious pronunciation problems can render the speaker's words incomprehensible.

AND! It is important to consider the audience. if the language learner is talking to her/his teacher or to someone with a good ear for language, there's a pretty good chance that the meaning will come through. However, there are native speakers of many languages who have a very hard time understanding speech which differs in the smallest way from what they are expecting to hear. To help students with everyday language encounters, I think standard sound production and correct use of idioms, phrasal verbs, etc. are the most helpful areas.

I hope this is helpful,

Petra

[konungursvia]

Not to mention, that the threshold of incomprehensibility doesn't have to be reached in order for things to go south -- if it takes an inordinate amount of conscious searching at high speeds in order to interpret someone, that's not useful communication. It's just too intensively top-down in interpretation to be helpful.