Questions about Inversions - Inverted Word Order

Originally Posted by tdol

The technical argument is that the comparative 'sooner' should be followed by 'than'. Many people say 'when', however. :wink:

I see. If you happen to have any particular comments with regards to what I posted at the top of the thread, it would be appreciated. I did searches for the subject of "inverted word order" in English and didn't come up with anything to speak of. Maybe I don't know how to search for this subject in the best way on the net.

:( :? :)

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by TALKtown

A similar sentence using "when" instead of "than" is in this text. Perhaps it's just the context that allows for it, but it is the same sentence structure using "when" instead of "than". I will add that the other examples I found only use "than".

http://www.schmoozeletter.com/schmoo...r/html/43.html


We started to walk back across the gravel parking lot, and no sooner did I have the key in the car door when I heard my wife screaming, "Oh no! Oh, oh, oh!"

I can see why somebody might use when, but "no sooner did" already carries the sense of the immediacy of the moment: no sooner did this happen than that happened.

<My two cents. >

Originally Posted by RonBee

I can see why somebody might use when, but "no sooner did" already carries the sense of the immediacy of the moment: no sooner did this happen than that happened.

<My two cents. >

Two cents noted. <no sooner - sense of immediacy>





Using "than" also makes more sense because "sooner" is a comparative form. "sooner than"

But TDOL already said that.

Here's a link that might get this disussion about inversions moving.

We could post more examples of inverted word order.

I would never have thought of this had I not seen it.

Never would I have thought of this had I not seen it. - if I had not seen it.

http://forums.about.com/UsingEnglish...ges?msg=3234.6

[Tdol]

To be honest, inversion strikes me as a lot of work for a learner with little genuine benefit. It helps with exams, but is, by and large, avoided like the plague.

[Lib]

Probably a bit late to add to the topic. But anyway, here goes.
It's true that we don't use inversions very often, but sometimes they are necessary (like when you need to use them in exams).
About the 'no sooner' sentence ... 'than' is grammatically more correct than 'when'. You could also use the past perfect: No sooner HAD Emily put the phone down than it rang again. (should there be a comma after 'down'?)
Inversions are used basically when there is a negative word or idea at the beginning of the sentence. A few more examples:
Not until I got home DID I REALISE I'd fogotten to buy some bread.
Never HAVE I HEARD such rubbish.
We also invert the verb in some type of conditional ideas without using 'if', as 'cityspeak' pointed out.
I could go on, but doing a search in 'google' would probably give you better results that I can.

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by Lib

Probably a bit late to add to the topic. But anyway, here goes.

It's never too late. :)

Originally Posted by Lib

About the 'no sooner' sentence ... 'than' is grammatically more correct than 'when'. You could also use the past perfect: No sooner HAD Emily put the phone down than it rang again. (should there be a comma after 'down'?)

Nope. No comma after down.

Originally Posted by Lib

Inversions are used basically when there is a negative word or idea at the beginning of the sentence. A few more examples:
Not until I got home DID I REALISE I'd fogotten to buy some bread.
Never HAVE I HEARD such rubbish.
We also invert the verb in some type of conditional ideas without using 'if', as 'cityspeak' pointed out.
I could go on, but doing a search in 'google' would probably give you better results that I can.

Good examples! Thanks. :D

8)

Originally Posted by tdol

To be honest, inversion strikes me as a lot of work for a learner with little genuine benefit. It helps with exams, but is, by and large, avoided like the plague.

Even at an advanced level?

I think after someone has attained fluency, it is simply something to add on to fluency. - part of knowing the language as completely as possible.

We use inversions, but don't think about it. It's not conscious. It may not occur often, but I would still think of it as part of learning the language entirely.

[Tdol]

I meant that students avoid them like the plague. How often have you heard a student say 'no sooner had I...' in genuine speech?

Originally Posted by tdol

I meant that students avoid them like the plague. How often have you heard a student say 'no sooner had I...' in genuine speech?

I see. I didn't realize you had meant the students.