Venn Diagram of English Verb patterns

Originally Posted by tdol

Sorry; I would use 'that' in 14. Dropping it sounds a bit American, but I could be wrong.

Bingo, "write" is one of the control verbs. a) is wrong, b) is right. I have it on good authority that "that" cannot be dropped there in British English. (but I also want to know about West Atlantic usage.)

I am fairly sure about three of the others, but there are ten others that, I'm not sure about.

It is interesting that you only pick "write" maybe there is a continuum of decreasing acceptability of dropping "that"

[Francois]

I'm not a native speaker, but I'll have a go for the fun of it:
I would use 'that' with these ones:

5 a) He warned me the roads were dangerous.
8 a) He suspected John was a thief.
9 a) He promised he wouldn’t be long.
11 a) He complained the soup was cold.
12 a) He explained the waiter had a lot of tables to serve.
13 a) He suggested the restaurant should employ more waiters.
14 a) He wrote he wasn’t satisfied with the service.

FRC

Originally Posted by Francois

I'm not a native speaker, but I'll have a go for the fun of it:
I would use 'that' with these ones:

5 a) He warned me the roads were dangerous.
8 a) He suspected John was a thief.
9 a) He promised he wouldn’t be long.
11 a) He complained the soup was cold.
12 a) He explained the waiter had a lot of tables to serve.
13 a) He suggested the restaurant should employ more waiters.
14 a) He wrote he wasn’t satisfied with the service.

FRC

Thanks Francois,

I just want to make sure that I understand you right.
The sentences marked a) don't have "that" sentences maked b) have "that".
You said, "I would use "that" with these ones," then went on to write a list where every example was one of the a) sentences.

Do you mean 5b, 8b, 9b, 11, 12b, 13b and 14b are correct, and
5a, 8a , 9a 11a 12a 13a and 14a are incorrect?

Have you checked out the main diagram by the way?
http://www.geocities.com/endipatterson/Catenative.html

[Francois]

That's because I'm lazy and just copied&pasted your sentences and kept the ones that looked strange to me without 'that'.
I've just taken a look at your link -- I've probably jumped in something that is above my head :-p

FRC

Not at all Francois, each section is no more complicated than the question that I just asked. Trouble is there are 31 sections.

[Francois]

Yes, I've looked into it more carefully, and it can certainly come in useful. Maybe you could add a bit more examples.
Apparently I got the mandory 'that' right, that's not so bad for me

FRC

Originally Posted by Francois

Yes, I've looked into it more carefully, and it can certainly come in useful. Maybe you could add a bit more examples.
Apparently I got the mandory 'that' right, that's not so bad for me

FRC

Francois,

If by more examples you mean more verbs, I am attempting to list as many as I can. In fact, I want to list every single verb that can be followed by another.

If you mean examples of the actual verbs in use, these are all shown in the links which you can go to by clicking the relevant section on the diagram. Sorry, but the diagram would be too unwieldy if I gave examples on the diagram itself.

[Francois]

Yes, I meant more examples when you follow the links (not on the diagram).

FRC

I'll see what I can do, Francois. Do you have anything specific in mind? I'm always ready to use any good ideas. :D At the moment it isn't really for learners, but I'd like to add exercises, and things like that eventually. I think there will be two versions eventually, one for linguists and one for learners.