help with tenses

[makaveli]

Originally Posted by jwschang

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/sp.../phpSpell.html
I would say all 3 are OK. :wink:

Ok JW,

As an Englishman grappling with the wonders of tenses and grammar books at this very moment himself, I am not going to doubt you!!! It's just a structure I have never come across in spoken English. 8)

Infact, it is usually used by someone making a statement in regard to being young not old, as in:

"I am 54 years young"!!!

That is about the closest example I can think of and probably a poor one!!!!!!


Warm regards

Mak

[Casiopea]

Originally Posted by RonBee

I have not been able to find a definition for past perfect simple. How does that differ from past perfect?

http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/past-perfect.html

Very cool mental gymnastics! I wanna play, too. :D

The term 'past prefect simple' sounds kind of odd, doesn't it? But what if we added a capital to the word simple?

Considered the meaning of 'Simple' in "Simple Past":

Simple Past = one event in time (simple temporal relationship)
Past Perfect = two events related in time (complex temporal relationship)

Now consider the meaning of 'simple' in "Past Perfect simple":

simple in form (not in tense)
base form: had been

Compare:

complex in form (not in tense)
base form: had been + added morophology -ing

I believe Lib meant simple in form and not Simple, as in tense.

Mind you though, if we capitalized the entire word "SIMPLE", which I believe Lib did do, it makes it very hard indeed to tell if SIMPLE means, "simple" (form) or "Simple" (tense).

Very 8) mental gymnastics!

I luv this site :) :) :)

Originally Posted by makaveli

Ok JW,

As an Englishman grappling with the wonders of tenses and grammar books at this very moment himself, I am not going to doubt you!!! It's just a structure I have never come across in spoken English. 8)

Infact, it is usually used by someone making a statement in regard to being young not old, as in:

"I am 54 years young"!!!

That is about the closest example I can think of and probably a poor one!!!!!!


Warm regards

Mak

Hullo Max, it's nice to hear from you.

I'm one of those sometimes irreverent people when it comes to taking liberties with the English language. But that's out of respect (no contradiction here) for it as a universal language that is always evolving in tandum with the need for people to communicate as much as possible, where culture meets culture.

Saying "since young" is perhaps a reflection of a modern East Asian syndrome: we like to take short-cuts and we treat the bracketed bit in "since (I was) young" as understood or superfluous. It is a typical Singaporean expression and I think not really grammatically unacceptable. After all, English is so succint because it does avoid repitition, like "I use it as much as you (do)".

Ok JW,

As an Englishman grappling with the wonders of tenses and grammar books at this very moment himself, I am not going to doubt you!!! It's just a structure I have never come across in spoken English. 8)

Infact, it is usually used by someone making a statement in regard to being young not old, as in:

"I am 54 years young"!!!

That is about the closest example I can think of and probably a poor one!!!!!!

Nevertheless, I want to add that I stand corrected, because I would rather teach others to say it the way that it ought to be said, which is "since I was young".


Warm regards

Mak[/quote]

Originally Posted by jwschang

Ok JW,

As an Englishman grappling with the wonders of tenses and grammar books at this very moment himself, I am not going to doubt you!!! It's just a structure I have never come across in spoken English. 8)

Infact, it is usually used by someone making a statement in regard to being young not old, as in:

"I am 54 years young"!!!

That is about the closest example I can think of and probably a poor one!!!!!!



Warm regards

Mak

Nevertheless, I want to say that I stand corrected because I'd rather teach others to say it the way that it ought to be said, which is "since I was young". Warmest regards[/quote]

[Tdol]

As a BE speaker, I'd say 'since I was young', but like the shortened Singlish form.

[makaveli]

Some very interesting points and observations you raise JW, I have visited Asia and have Asian friends who have excellent English, so that which you said pertaining to shortening is not lost on me!!!! I have to endure VB and DB - Victoria & David Beckham questions constantly!

It's just I think for a BE speaker some shortening sounds plausable and works in this way and some don't, and that one to me just doesn't seem to stop in the right place (maybe after some more time in your part of the world I'll be as good as you)!!! :D

It's a point I find facinating though, so if you talk to friends etc of Asian decent in English, do you shorten as you would in your native language and understand with the same ease? And have there become a common list of words similar to many the Australians have modified, that most Asian nations have changed in English and now shorten? Putting aside any that are from outside influence like the multinational franchises.


Regards


Mak

Originally Posted by makaveli

Some very interesting points and observations you raise JW, I have visited Asia and have Asian friends who have excellent English, so that which you said pertaining to shortening is not lost on me!!!! I have to endure VB and DB - Victoria & David Beckham questions constantly!

It's just I think for a BE speaker some shortening sounds plausable and works in this way and some don't, and that one to me just doesn't seem to stop in the right place (maybe after some more time in your part of the world I'll be as good as you)!!! :D

It's a point I find facinating though, so if you talk to friends etc of Asian decent in English, do you shorten as you would in your native language and understand with the same ease? And have there become a common list of words similar to many the Australians have modified, that most Asian nations have changed in English and now shorten? Putting aside any that are from outside influence like the multinational franchises.


Regards


Mak

My own conclusion is that this "shortening" by non-native speakers is due to a number of causes, such as having a limited vocabulary, or resulting from sentence syntax in their own language, preference for short-cuts, lack of exposure to hearing it spoken the native way, etc.

Just talking about countries in this part only, like Singapore and Malaysia, "localised" English words there are not a lot (not comparable to, say, the Australians) but local forms of expression are more and often pretty unique, and readily understood among ourselves.

On that "since young" sentence, the "young" does not fit comfortably as an adverb at all, so it doesn't sound right to native speakers who use the various parts of speech naturally and not as a learned application. And its natural that it doesn't sound natural to TDOL as well, as BE speakers are used to it being an adjective.