noun x substantive

[Abstract Idea]

I thought these words (noun and substantive) were synonyms in English.
However, recently I have found the following sentence on a Thomas Hardy short story:
'A noun substantive went so far as to become an adjective in honour of the occasion.' (The Fiddler of the Reels (1893) by Thomas Hardy)

So, are there other types of substantives besides nouns ?

[engee30]

Originally Posted by ymnisky

I thought these words (noun and substantive) were synonyms in English.
However, recently I have found the following sentence on a Thomas Hardy short story:
'A noun substantive went so far as to become an adjective in honour of the occasion.' (The Fiddler of the Reels (1893) by Thomas Hardy)

So, are there other types of substantives besides nouns ?

This is what I've found:
SUBSTANTIVE [14c: from Latin nomen substantivum a name of a thing, a substantive noun]. A grammatical term that in the Middle Ages included both noun and adjective, but later meant noun exclusively. It is not usually found in later 20c English grammars. In such languages as Latin and French, the equivalent terms serve to distinguish the use of Latin nomen, French nom (etc.) as 'name' from the grammatical use as 'noun', a distinction which is unnecessary in English. However, the term has been used to refer to nouns and any other parts of speech serving as nouns ('the substantive in English'). The adjective local is used substantively in the sentence He had a drink at the local before going home (that is, the local public house).

[orangutan]

Originally Posted by ymnisky

I thought these words (noun and substantive) were synonyms in English.
However, recently I have found the following sentence on a Thomas Hardy short story:
'A noun substantive went so far as to become an adjective in honour of the occasion.' (The Fiddler of the Reels (1893) by Thomas Hardy)

So, are there other types of substantives besides nouns ?

I think it is more that there are other types of nouns than substantives, at least historically.

The terminology is based on the Latin translation of that used by the Greek Stoic grammarians. They classified nouns and adjectives together as "noun" (onoma / nomen), in contrast to "verb" (rhema / verbum) and other parts of speech - basically because both nouns and adjectives had case inflections. Noun and adjective were then distinguished as "nomen substantivum" (substantival noun) and "nomen adjectivum" (adjectival noun) respectively.

In English, "noun" (from "nomen") came to be restricted to nouns, though we can also call them substantives. In a number of other languages, perhaps more logically, when nouns and adjectives came to be treated as distinct parts of speech, they were called "substantives" and "adjectives" respectively.

The fact that some English adjectives can be used as nouns - though perfectly true - is not, I think, relevant here.

Hope this helps.

[Abstract Idea]

Originally Posted by orangutan

In a number of other languages, perhaps more logically, when nouns and adjectives came to be treated as distinct parts of speech, they were called "substantives" and "adjectives" respectively.

That is the case in Portuguese: "substantivo" and "adjetivo"

[philo2009]

Originally Posted by ymnisky

I thought these words (noun and substantive) were synonyms in English.
However, recently I have found the following sentence on a Thomas Hardy short story:
'A noun substantive went so far as to become an adjective in honour of the occasion.' (The Fiddler of the Reels (1893) by Thomas Hardy)

So, are there other types of substantives besides nouns ?

Yes, pronouns.

A substantive is a member of either of the two form classes that typcially serve a nominal function.

[Abstract Idea]

Originally Posted by philo2009

Yes, pronouns.

A substantive is a member of either of the two form classes that typcially serve a nominal function.

Would you mind please clarifying a bit more here? I think I didn't understand quite well the point.
Are you talking just about my last question "are there other types of substantives besides nouns" regardless of the context (which is also important to me)?

In that context of the initial post I think I am satisfied with the colleagues explanations, which once more I enourmously thank.

[orangutan]

Originally Posted by ymnisky

Would you mind please clarifying a bit more here? I think I didn't understand quite well the point.
Are you talking just about my last question "are there other types of substantives besides nouns" regardless of the context (which is also important to me)?

I think the point being made is that pronouns, as well as nouns, can be classed as substantives. They can largely fill the same grammatical functions (subject, object etc.).

Some people think of pronouns as a kind of noun, but this has not always been the case. The ancient Greek grammarians didn't, and nor do many modern linguists.

I hope this is accurate.

[konungursvia]

So, substantives include nouns. Nouns are names for persons, places and things, but we can also refer to objects in other ways, without their names (nouns), so these are substantives but not nouns.

[philo2009]

Originally Posted by ymnisky

Are you talking just about my last question "are there other types of substantives besides nouns"

Yes, it was a reply to that question, indicating that pronouns are also substantives.