'Been' - past participle of GO?

[Soup]

Isn't it strange that I can say

I've been to London.

and I can't say

I am to London?

I agree with 5jj that this usage is strange and I think it's strange because of the "to".

BE + to (meaning situated, a meaning different from that of GO + to) survives in dialects on each side of the pond:


British English (Wiltshire): Where are you to? (meaning, where are you (situated), not where are you going)

Canadian English (Newfoundland): Stay where you are to (meaning, stay where you are (situated)).

[BobK]

... and in quite prestigious/educated dialects too. Giles Coren (Oxford degree in English, etc) in today's Times, wrote (in an informal narrative) "I was to Selfridge's"
[for non-UK people, that's a shop in London's Oxford Street].

b

[Soup]

"I was to Selfridge's

Beautiful find, Bob.

[5jj]

I decided to try the OED and Websters Third, both of them slightly more authoritative than the OALD and CALD. Here are some things I found (my emphasis added}.:

1. Both of them give gone as the only past participle of GO, been of BE.

2. be.[…] The primary sense appears to have been […] ‘to occupy a place’; (OED)

3. be.[…] Idiomatically, in past, now only with perfect and pluperfect tenses, with to and a substantive, or infinitive of purpose: To have been (at the proper place)in order to, or for, the purpose of. […]
I was yesterday to wait upon Sir Herbert […]
I was to see the new farce.[…
Have you been to the Crystal Palace? I had been to see Irving that night. (OED)

4. to. […] Expressing simple position: At, in (a place) […]Gf. Ger. Zu Berlin, zu Hause. […]
Were you ever to the Botanic Gardens? (OED)

5. be […] 2f(1) : to come or go : JOURNEY <we will ~ on our way shortly><have you been home since Christmas> (2) : to make a stay : show oneself or be present < they will ~ in town all week><was your sister at the party last night> - not used in the present; use of the past tense followed by to <I was to town yesterday> often considered non-standard. G : to come around in due course often in following a schedule or appointd round – used only in perfect forms <has the postman been this morning> (W3rd)

6. to […] c - used as a function word to indicate a place or a thing to which one goes for a temporary stay <has been ~ his uncle’s house once> (W3rd)

Take the information there, stir well, and add a dash of the zest found in posts:#5 #23 #29 #33 #38. #45 #47 #51 and #52 and – I rest my case

As my beloved Jane might have said, had she written about misunderstood been rather than Miss under-valued Bennet: It is a truth universally acknowledged,* that an assertion not in possession of evidence,* must be in want of one good argument.

* Punctuation was not her strong point.


Oxford English Dictionary (2nd Edition), (1989), Oxford, OUP.
Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, (1961), Springfield: Merriam-Webster.

[...]fivejedjon,[...]from the very beginning, I knew that the battle over this issue between you and me (or between the ones on your side and on mine) would be unfair.

How very true, engee.

[ronconi]

As a native Spanish speaker, I might contribute the following considerations:

To be = estar; been = estado
To go= ir; gone = ido

Has she been to Paris? = ¿Ha estado en París? = ¿Ha ido a París?
Has she gone to Paris? = ¿Se ha ido a París?

As you can see, "ha estado en" and "ha ido a" are practically synonymous in Spanish. Nevertheless, I would never, ever think of estado as a participle of ir. In my opinion, it is quite confusing to let idiomatic uses (semantics) alter or supplement the verb paradigms (morphology).

[Frank Antonson]

Good point.

I agree.

[Frank Antonson]

The situation with Spanish IS, however, a little more complex because of the difference between "estar" and "ser". Both, of course, are translated into English as "to be". I actually think that this supports your point about idiomatic expressions vs verb paradigms.