Syllabic Consonant ???

[j4mes_bond25]

I wonder if there's anyone around who could enlighten me a little about the use of "Syllabic Consonant".

As far as I know it's usually syllabic N (as in button), syllabic M (as in bottom) & syllabic L (as in bottle) are the ONLY 3 syllabic consonant. Is there any other than I'm yet missing.

Additionally, what I really wonder is WHY does the syllabic N occurs in "button" (pronounced "but.n") but NOT in London (which is pronounced "lun.dan", as opposed to "lun.dn"). The same goes for Hampton & Wanton, for example. If name such as "Gordon" (pronounced "gor.dn") "Jordon" (pronounced "jor.dn") has syllabic "N" then why not names like "London", "Hampton" & "Wanton" ???

[Tdol]

Many would say that there's a mini-schwa in those. Could the pronunciation of London be down to the proximity of another 'n' sound?

[rogusx]

Originally Posted by j4mes_bond25

I wonder if there's anyone around who could enlighten me a little about the use of "Syllabic Consonant".
As far as I know it's usually syllabic N (as in button), syllabic M (as in bottom) & syllabic L (as in bottle) are the ONLY 3 syllabic consonant. Is there any other than I'm yet missing.
Additionally, what I really wonder is WHY does the syllabic N occurs in "button" (pronounced "but.n") but NOT in London (which is pronounced "lun.dan", as opposed to "lun.dn"). The same goes for Hampton & Wanton, for example. If name such as "Gordon" (pronounced "gor.dn") "Jordon" (pronounced "jor.dn") has syllabic "N" then why not names like "London", "Hampton" & "Wanton" ???

For GenAm, sometimes the "er" in "father" is considered a syllabic /r/. There are precious few rules in English pronunciation, so wondering why similar words are pronounced in radically different ways might be a futile exercise. Tdol's suggestion makes sense to me though.

[rogusx]

By the way, does anyone in here pronounce "bottom" with a syllabic /m/?? I myself include a clear schwa between the /t/ and the /m/ and it sounds really odd to produce /ˈbɒt.m/. Perhaps for those who substitute the /t/ for a glottal stop and say /ˈbɒʔ.m/ it is more usual to use syllabic /m/.
There's also syllabic /ŋ/ in certain contexts, such as "lock and key" when it is delivered quickly as "lock'n key" and pronounced /ˈlɒkŋˈkiː/ (RP) /ˈlɑkŋˈki/ (GA).

[j4mes_bond25]

Originally Posted by rogusx

By the way, does anyone in here pronounce "bottom" with a syllabic /m/?? I myself include a clear schwa between the /t/ and the /m/ and it sounds really odd to produce /ˈbɒt.m/. Perhaps for those who substitute the /t/ for a glottal stop and say /ˈbɒʔ.m/ it is more usual to use syllabic /m/.
There's also syllabic /ŋ/ in certain contexts, such as "lock and key" when it is delivered quickly as "lock'n key" and pronounced /ˈlɒkŋˈkiː/ (RP) /ˈlɑkŋˈki/ (GA).

Generally speaking, I very much love the concept of "syllabic consonant". For that whereever I've slightest of doubt, I tend to check Cambridge's dictionary. If you check "bottom" there http://dictionary.cambridge.org/defi...9042&dict=CALD

you would notice that "m" is pronounced as syllabic consonant (but having schwa in between as in "bot.am" is ALSO acceptable). It all depends on the speaker itself, so generally speaking BOTH are accurate, however, in case of "London", since the dictionary DOES NOT suggest "syllabic n" sound, it would be WRONG to use "Lun.dn", since ALL SPEAKERS are expected to pronounce it as "Lun.dan".

However, having said that, in the name Gordon & Jordan, it HAS syllabic "n" in it, so some might pronounce it as "gor.dan" & "jor.dan", while the alternate acceptable way to pronounce it would ALSO be "gor.dn" & "jor.dn".

Check this website out:

http://www.cf.ac.uk/encap/staff/tench/syllabic.html

[Carmencita]

What is a syllabic consonant?


Definition
A syllabic consonant is a phonetic element that normally patterns as a consonant, but may fill a vowel slot in a syllable.

Examples
The final nasals in /pattern/
The final nasals in /bottom/
If you want to learn more go to the following sitehttp://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsASyllabicConsonant.htm

Chao

[Tdol]

Originally Posted by rogusx

By the way, does anyone in here pronounce "bottom" with a syllabic /m/

I think a hardcore Cockney could do it with the glottal stop.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by rogusx

By the way, does anyone in here pronounce "bottom" with a syllabic /m/?? I myself include a clear schwa between the /t/ and the /m/ and it sounds really odd to produce /ˈbɒt.m/. Perhaps for those who substitute the /t/ for a glottal stop and say /ˈbɒʔ.m/ it is more usual to use syllabic /m/.
There's also syllabic /ŋ/ in certain contexts, such as "lock and key" when it is delivered quickly as "lock'n key" and pronounced /ˈlɒkŋˈkiː/ (RP) /ˈlɑkŋˈki/ (GA).

I do, depending on context. At the end of a sentence I use a clear schwa between the /t/ and the /m/, but in a phrase like 'from the bottom up' the /m/ becomes syllabic; my /t/ is certainly not glottalized.
b

[Tdol]

Good example, Bob- I think I do the same there.

[Mark43]

For me, I never pronounce "bottom" with a syllabic m. For me, the only words that have syllabic m (the only ones that I can think of off the top of my head) are "chasm", "prism", "spasm", and "orgasm".