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03-Sep-2009, 23:00
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2009 Country: India
Posts: 1,073
Current Location: New Delhi First Language: Hindi Member Type: Student or Learner | |  Re: Challenge against Standard English
What are your views on another english variety, Indian English. With increasing number of companies outsourcing business/voice process/customer support to India. Native speakers invariebly get exposed to Indian English to get their queries resolved. Prof David Crystal in one of his article predicts that certain flavors of Indian English (excessive usage of present progressive) would be a part of normal standard english and would become acceptable world over. |
03-Sep-2009, 23:03
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Country: Shanghai, China
Posts: 230
Member Type: Student or Learner | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangutan  I wouldn't call it a lie - different students have different needs. | Would you be so kind as to explain how student needs enters into this? |
03-Sep-2009, 23:23
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Country: Shanghai, China
Posts: 230
Member Type: Student or Learner | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupumh What are your views on another english variety, Indian English. With increasing number of companies outsourcing business/voice process/customer support to India. Native speakers invariebly get exposed to Indian English to get their queries resolved. Prof David Crystal in one of his article predicts that certain flavors of Indian English (excessive usage of present progressive) would be a part of normal standard english and would become acceptable world over. | Which Indian English are you referring to? Indian English Hinglish; Punjabi/Delhi English; U.P/Bihari English; Bengali/Assamese English; Benglish; Oriya English; Gujarati English; Maharashtrian English; Kannadiga English; Telugu English; Tamil English; Taken from China EFL: The Four Great Lies China Holistic English Call centers set up in China hire people from India because their English is so much better than Chinglish. |
04-Sep-2009, 18:03
| | Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Country: UK
Posts: 253
Current Location: Middle East First Language: English Member Type: Academic | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW Would you be so kind as to explain how student needs enters into this? | It is very simple. You claimed it was a lie that students needed to master standard English and that "chinglish" wasn't good enough. Chinglish may be good enough for some students' purposes, but some need and/or want to master standard English. |
04-Sep-2009, 22:20
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Country: Shanghai, China
Posts: 230
Member Type: Student or Learner | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangutan It is very simple. You claimed it was a lie that students needed to master standard English and that "chinglish" wasn't good enough. Chinglish may be good enough for some students' purposes, but some need and/or want to master standard English. | Interesting - you went to the refrenced website but did not read the indicated article, yet you offer your opinion?
It is impossible to "master" English." There is no such thing as "Standard English."
Try reading the article. |
04-Sep-2009, 22:32
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Country: Shanghai, China
Posts: 230
Member Type: Student or Learner | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupumh | First, David calls Indian English "Hinglish."
Second, his opinion seems to be based upon a two week visit to India a couple of years ago.
Third, I never cite anoynomous forums as authority for anything.
Fourth, only 1/3rd of Indians speak Hinglish according to David. That leaves 900 million others speaking something else.
Fifth, an interesting spin by a British linguist. |
07-Sep-2009, 15:19
| | Member | | Join Date: May 2009 Country: UK
Posts: 253
Current Location: Middle East First Language: English Member Type: Academic | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by MW Interesting - you went to the refrenced website but did not read the indicated article, yet you offer your opinion?
It is impossible to "master" English." There is no such thing as "Standard English."
Try reading the article. | I was offering an opinion on the summary and opinions in your post. I don't feel like reading the whole article, thanks.
Last edited by orangutan; 07-Sep-2009 at 15:43.
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08-Sep-2009, 00:07
| | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2004 Country: Shanghai, China
Posts: 230
Member Type: Student or Learner | | Re: Challenge against Standard English
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangutan I was offering an opinion on the summary and opinions in your post. I don't feel like reading the whole article, thanks. | Let me quote some salient parts for lazy readers: This extreme mandate to “master” English is the exact academic pressure that Krashen identifies as inhibiting 2nd language acquisition.[1] When this academic pressure is removed, Chinese learners of English build self-confidence, intrinsic motivation, self-discipline and develop autonomous learning skills,[2] and then go on to produce comprehensible English, but not perfect English. pg. 4 Granted, some professions demand a higher degree of English such as interpreters, translators, industrial and political spies, international lawyers, international accountants and scientists cooperating on international projects. But the average Chinese business person or common citizen has no demonstrable need for anything more than Chinglish. pg. 5
[1] Krashen, Stephen (1981) Second Language Acquisition and 2nd Language Learning, Prentice Hall [2] Qiang/Wolff/Teng (2007) China EFL: Holistic English ESL in China - UsingEnglish.com accessed August 1, 2009  | | |
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