[General] Pronunciation of "saw and bought"

[konungursvia]

Originally Posted by PROESL

The American Heritage Dictionary shows something different. It shows that bought and saw have the same vowel sound, which, as an American English speaker, I would have to agree with, as the vowel sound in these two words sounds the same to me. I take the sound to be a kind of short "o" sound. Anyway, in some cases, distinguishing in a more detail and finer way might not be practical in reality and for the purposes of learning the language.


bought: Definition from Answers.com

saw: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

You quoted me and said the dictionary showed "something different." Then you confirmed whether that was what I was saying. It had nothing to do with my message. I suggest helping, rather than nitpicking at imagined foibles... Thanks.

[PROESL]

Originally Posted by konungursvia

You quoted me and said the dictionary showed "something different." Then you confirmed whether that was what I was saying. It had nothing to do with my message. I suggest helping, rather than nitpicking at imagined foibles... Thanks.

Okay, all nitpicking aside. Do you mean to simply say that "bought" and "saw" have two different vowel sounds? They are the same to me.

[PROESL]

Attachment 716 - This is an American English voice, and "bought" and "saw" use the same vowel sound.

Attachment 717

Attachment 718 This is a British English voice. British English speakers use a different vowel in "thaw" or "saw". It's not the same as American English speakers.

Attachment 719

The vowel sounds in saw and bought are heard and pronounced the same by most American English speakers, as indicated in the American Heritage Dictionary.

Dictionary: saw1 (sô)
saw: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com
Audio pronunciation for
" saw "
hear it again
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/see

http://www.answers.com/topic/sought
sought (sôt)
Audio pronunciation for
" sought "
hear it again


Dictionary: bought (bôt)
bought: Definition from Answers.com

Audio pronunciation for
" bought "
hear it again
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bought - Merriam-Webster's sounds better. It's a longer sound.

[konungursvia]

Originally Posted by PROESL

Okay, all nitpicking aside. Do you mean to simply say that "bought" and "saw" have two different vowel sounds? They are the same to me.

I repeat, I never said "bought" and "saw" have two different vowel sounds. Are you quite "all right", or is there "some problem"?

[PROESL]

Originally Posted by konungursvia

I repeat, I never said "bought" and "saw" have two different vowel sounds. Are you quite "all right", or is there "some problem"?

And I never said you said that. This is why I asked. I didn't know what you meant. The combination of your posts seemed to indicate something, and I was not sure what it was. I'm quite all right.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by PROESL

...

Attachment 718 This is a British English voice. British English speakers use a different vowel in "thaw" or "saw". It's not the same as American English speakers.
...

I know of no British English speakers who do. I know of at least one American English speaker who does. Perhaps it's a New England thing.

b

[konungursvia]

Okay, I'll repeat my last point a third time, as you are unable to find it in the previous posts. I disagree with a previous post that saw is "read as /sʌ/" (which is the first syllable of "supper.")

I find it is indeed pronounced /sɔ/ in the UK and here in North American as /sa/, which is what your online dictionary renders (in non-standard script) as "sô" which we can understand but which is not in the IPA script, so is less useful to others.

I do hope you understand now, and stop asking me questions about things I did not post about or even say. It is a waste of time, for us and for readers.

[PROESL]

Originally Posted by BobK

I know of no British English speakers who do. I know of at least one American English speaker who does. Perhaps it's a New England thing.

b

Okay, I'm not following your post. What do you mean by "I know of no British English speakers who do"?

[PROESL]

Originally Posted by konungursvia

Okay, I'll repeat my last point a third time, as you are unable to find it in the previous posts. I disagree with a previous post that saw is "read as /sʌ/" (which is the first syllable of "supper.")

I find it is indeed pronounced /sɔ/ in the UK and here in North American as /sa/, which is what your online dictionary renders (in non-standard script) as "sô" which we can understand but which is not in the IPA script, so is less useful to others.

I do hope you understand now, and stop asking me questions about things I did not post about. It is a waste of time.

I've gone back and taken a look at the posts. My confusion came when I read a post referring to "saw", but not "bought". As the OP asked about "saw" and "bought" together, it seemed that "saw" was being treated separately from "bought". That's why I asked. I've made no assumptions. I find it difficult to consider asking for clarification a waste of time.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by PROESL

Okay, I'm not following your post. What do you mean by "I know of no British English speakers who do"?

Isn't my question clear? There may be British speakers who pronounce the vowel of 'thaw' differently from the vowel in 'thought'; but in 58 years living in the UK I haven't heard such a person. The vowel phoneme in each of those words is /ɔ:/.

b